http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/12/BAQT129NMG.DTL&tsp=1

What does everyone think? Good news? Fair?

"A federal judge says the University of California can deny course credit to applicants from Christian high schools whose textbooks declare the Bible infallible and reject evolution."


You cannot tell people what to believe. Anyone who takes a course can learn what the curriculum is teaching. Even if you dont agree with what the course is teaching. Why would it be fair to just punish someone for their beliefs?

Makes sense to me. You take a high school course in science that teaches pseudoscience, you don't get college credit for it. After all, courses in astrology, palm reading, and ESP aren't accepted in institutions of higher learning; why would creationism?

Now, if it was a class that taught the theology of creationism, that might be worth a sociology credit. But certainly not a science credit.

You cannot tell people what to believe. Anyone who takes a course can learn what the curriculum is teaching. Even if you dont agree with what the course is teaching. Why would it be fair to just punish someone for their beliefs?

They're not telling them what to believe - they're telling them they need to take a science class. They're free to take classes like that as much as they want, but they need X number of credits from a more, um, accepted science curriculum.

Makes sense to me. You take a high school course in science that teaches pseudoscience, you don't get college credit for it. After all, courses in astrology, palm reading, and ESP aren't accepted in institutions of higher learning; why would creationism?

Now, if it was a class that taught the theology of creationism, that might be worth a sociology credit. But certainly not a science credit.
I agree - it's completely logical.

So what do they do about kids who come from public schools in states that don't teach evolution? Do they not let them in either?

So what do they do about kids who come from public schools in states that don't teach evolution? Do they not let them in either?
I would assume so.

So what do they do about kids who come from public schools in states that don't teach evolution? Do they not let them in either?
Who said anything about not "letting [someone] in"? They're not giving college credit for certain high school courses. RTFA.

Who said anything about not "letting [someone] in"? They're not giving college credit for certain high school courses. RTFA.
It didn't say anything about college credit, it just said credit. I took it to mean that they weren't accepting such classes as part of the high school credits that are required to get into the university. If they don't have all the credits, then how could they be accepted?

EDIT: The article seems to support my interpretation... Here's a quote:
Most students qualify by taking an approved set of college preparatory classes; students whose courses lack UC approval can remain eligible by scoring well in those subjects on the Scholastic Assessment Test.
Therefore, if they don't have all the courses and they don't score well enough on the SAT, they don't get in.

It didn't say anything about college credit, it just said credit. I took it to mean that they weren't accepting such classes as part of the high school credits that are required to get into the university. If they don't have all the credits, then how could they be accepted?

EDIT: The article seems to support my interpretation... Here's a quote:

Therefore, if they don't have all the courses and they don't score well enough on the SAT, they don't get in.


Well specifically "evolution" is not a required science subject. Biology, Chemistry, and Physics are usually required.

What is being said here is that "creationism" is not recognized as a "science" course - Nothing to do the requirement of "evolution" as a science course.

I agree.

Well specifically "evolution" is not a required science subject. Biology, Chemistry, and Physics are usually required.
Evolution is part of basic biology.

Evolution is part of basic biology.

Sure, but universities don't check to see if evolution was taught in that basic biology. Look don't argue for the sake of argument. I'm on the side of evolution here.
All I am saying is that "creationism" does not count as science and I agree. I was just answering DF's post, so don't post for the sake of posting.

I notice you didn't find it necessary to answer my post, Borg. Do you still think I'm wrong?

I notice you didn't find it necessary to answer my post, Borg. Do you still think I'm wrong?
Indeed, it seems they aren't letting people from such high schools in. It seems that UC requires some sort of college preparatory high school to get in, or something like that. And it makes sense that a class in religion would be unacceptable as science.

Makes sense to me. You take a high school course in science that teaches pseudoscience, you don't get college credit for it. After all, courses in astrology, palm reading, and ESP aren't accepted in institutions of higher learning; why would creationism?

I agree completely.

Also, there is little point in wasting time trying to present scientific principles to superstitious cretins who have been indoctrinated to believe that -- "Well, some magical man in the sky waved his wand, and that's how humans were created." -- makes more sense than the theory of evolution.

_______________________

Christianity --- \Chris*tian"i*ty\, n. [OE. cristiente, OF.
cristient['e], F. chr['e]tient['e], fr. L. christianitas. ]: The belief that a cosmic Jewish mystic, who was his own Father, who was sent from some metaphysical plane of existence not of this earth can grant you immortality if you symbolically eat his flesh and send a telepathic message to him that you forever accept him as your Lord and Master, so that he can remove an evil force from your "soul" ... said "soul" being an invisible spark of enduring immortality that is present in humankind because a woman --who was created from the rib bone of a male-- was convinced by a talking snake to eat the fruit from a forbidden magical tree of knowledge.

Christianity --- \Chris*tian"i*ty\, n. [OE. cristiente, OF.
cristient['e], F. chr['e]tient['e], fr. L. christianitas. ]: The belief that a cosmic Jewish mystic, who was his own Father, who was sent from some metaphysical plane of existence not of this earth can grant you immortality if you symbolically eat his flesh and send a telepathic message to him that you forever accept him as your Lord and Master, so that he can remove an evil force from your "soul" ... said "soul" being an invisible spark of enduring immortality that is present in humankind because a woman --who was created from the rib bone of a male-- was convinced by a talking snake to eat the fruit from a forbidden magical tree of knowledge.
LMAO! Only you, FT...