I thought you were supposed to wait until marriage? Isn't that the moral and religious thing to do?

Maybe Sarah Palin should have supported sex education on contraception's instead of "abstinence only" sex education.

Source:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26496189/

ZOMG!!!!! Burn the witch!!

For a woman who preaches "family values" and Christianity, you'd think she would have raised her daughter to wait until marriage?

It seems Sarah Palin has too much going on to be VP. A pregnant teenage daughter and a newborn with down-syndrome?

Even feminists would say she needs to start spending more time with her family.

Furthermore, I guess those abstinence-only programs didn't pay off so well!! This proves what a joke those programs are.

For a woman who preaches "family values" and Christianity, you'd think she would have raised her daughter to wait until marriage...right?

It seems Sarah Palin has too much going on to be VP. A pregnant teenage daughter and a newborn with down-syndrome?

Even feminists would say she needs to start spending more time with her family.

Furthermore, I guess those abstinence-only programs didn't pay off so well!! This proves what a joke those programs are.Dude...come off it... This woman could be the second coming of mother teresa, and you'd have nothing good to say about her. You're quickly turning into shaman-lite.

For a woman who preaches "family values" and Christianity, you'd think she would have raised her daughter to wait until marriage?

It seems Sarah Palin has too much going on to be VP. A pregnant teenage daughter and a newborn with down-syndrome?

Even feminists would say she needs to start spending more time with her family.

Furthermore, I guess those abstinence-only programs didn't pay off so well!! This proves what a joke those programs are.

I'm sure she did raise her daughter with those values, considering she's keeping the baby and marrying the father. The Palin's have plenty of money, if she's overworked she can easily get help.

It's pretty low to try to use this against Palin, OD.

Dude...come off it... This woman could be the second coming of mother teresa, and you'd have nothing good to say about her. You're quickly turning into shaman-lite.
Yes, HaVok.

Denial is a happy place to be, isn't it?

The fact is, you conservatives preach family values but rarely practice them.

The fact it, her daughter didn't wait until marriage. Which is what you are supposed to do according to the values Sarah Palin holds.

The fact is, abstinence only education --which Sarah Palin supports-- didn't work with her daughter and further proves who ineffective it is.

Keep sticking your head in the sand, HaVok. But your sarcastic witch comments won't go un-checked.

I'm sure she did raise her daughter with those values, considering she's keeping the baby and marrying the father. The Palin's have plenty of money, if she's overworked she can easily get help.
Clearly, she didn't raise her daughter well if she's knocked up at 17.

Furthermore, you don't marry the father AFTER you become pregnant. Where have you been living?

It's pretty low to try to use this against Palin, OD.
A lot of people value the success of someone by how well their children turn out.

Knocked up at 17 isn't a good sign.

17 year old, 5 month pregnant daughter. Family values? Who has been taking care of the kids while she plays governer? A downs syndrome child? WHo takes care of him while she is on the campaign trail? This woman has more on her plate than is healthy for a famaly as large as hers. It is obvious that at least one of her children needs better supervision and guidence. This is going to be an interesting election.

Hey, what are the odds that this information was withheld from the mccaine campaigne untill now?

What are the odds that they knew and wanted her anyway? Orwaited untill now to say anything?

Echo I'm sure we will get flack for saying she should stay home with her family because we are supposed to be "feminists".

But even feminists would say she should stay home with her family if she has an un-married pregnant daughter and a child with down syndrome.

This is truly a unique case, where even the most hardcore feminists would say she needs to spend a little bit more time with her family.

Clearly, she didn't raise her daughter well if she's knocked up at 17.

Furthermore, you don't marry the father AFTER you become pregnant. Where have you been living?

You were in high school recently, OD. You know how common it is for kids to have sex at that age. Palin's daughter was just one of the unlucky few to get pregnant. Drawing the conclusion that Palin didn't raise her well is extremely insulting to any parent who's had to deal with a teen pregnancy. Parents can't follow their children around 24/7 and they can't prevent them from making mistakes.


A lot of people value the success of someone by how well their children turn out.

Knocked up at 17 isn't a good sign.

A lot of people think and do things that I don't approve of. Judging a person based on the actions of someone else falls into that category.

You were in high school recently, OD. You know how common it is for kids to have sex at that age.
Yes, I do know how common it is for kids to have sex at my age. No one in my high school became pregnant. Pretty cool, huh? Maybe it had to do with our sex education.

Palin's daughter was just one of the unlucky few to get pregnant. Drawing the conclusion that Palin didn't raise her well is extremely insulting to any parent who's had to deal with a teen pregnancy. Parents can't follow their children around 24/7 and they can't prevent them from making mistakes.
My point is, if Sarah Palin is going to judge other people and tell them how to live their lives "morally" maybe she should focus on her family first.

Furthermore, maybe if Sarah Palin had NOT supported abstinence only education her daughter wouldn't have been so "unlucky".

I thought you were supposed to wait until marriage? Isn't that the moral and religious thing to do?
Heyyyyyyyyyy.....you haven't heard?!!

Republicans have re-branded themselves "..a party of mavericks"!!!

"Republicans are embracing John McCain as their presidential candidate by declaring themselves mavericks but at the same time calling for unity on most issues. :rolleyes:

The effort to tie the 2008 Republican Party Platform to its presidential nominee was clear from the first page of the official copy, released Friday, calling the GOP “a party of mavericks.”

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/gop-seeks-unity-as-party-of-mavericks-2008-08-29.html

At least they've started-out with an official "party-girl"!!

If this were a Democrat, the Republicans would be saying...

"Look how immoral they are in raising children!"

"How selfish that a mother with a pregnant daughter and a child with down syndrome is running for VP"

"How horrible that a mother would subject her children through this scrutiny"

Yet, we hear them spin like never before!

This is actually a good thing!
This DOESN'T conflict with our values and makes us hypocrites!

Yeah riiiiight.

Yes, I do know how common it is for kids to have sex at my age. No one in my high school became pregnant. Pretty cool, huh? Maybe it had to do with our sex education.

Not a single person in your high school got pregnant? Maybe someone got pregnant and decided not to keep it? I went to a high school with 2500 students, so I find the claim that no one got pregnant in your 4 years of high school a little hard to swallow. In any case, even with real sex education (we're in the same boat when it comes to how silly abstinence-only sex ed is) pregnancies happen.

Dude...come off it... This woman could be the second coming of mother teresa, and you'd have nothing good to say about her. You're quickly turning into shaman-lite.
You're considering sainthood, for her, and you consider me over-the-top?? :rolleyes:

I think she's gotta come-up with a brand-name potato-chip, or something, with a likeness of Christ (on it), before Republicans start crankin'-up their Sainthood-sequence.

Not a single person in your high school got pregnant? Maybe someone got pregnant and decided not to keep it?
Ok, that's true.

I take it back. Anyone who did get pregnant must have gotten an abortion or taken the morning after pill. And thank god for that.

Luckily, everyone knew about the morning after pill and laws in Oregon are pretty lax and kids could get them fairly easy. Plus, EVERYONE knew about and how to get birth control.

I'm sure she did raise her daughter with those values, considering she's keeping the baby and marrying the father. The Palin's have plenty of money, if she's overworked she can easily get help.
Yeah....."conservatives" are always the first ones, on-the-scene, after every young-woman carries-to-term (like the moralists insist), and she's in-need of help. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Overdose
Clearly, she didn't raise her daughter well if she's knocked up at 17.

Furthermore, you don't marry the father AFTER you become pregnant. Where have you been living?

You were in high school recently, OD. You know how common it is for kids to have sex at that age. Palin's daughter was just one of the unlucky few to get pregnant. Drawing the conclusion that Palin didn't raise her well is extremely insulting to any parent who's had to deal with a teen pregnancy.

You are seemingly oblivious to the real point in all of this, CBL.

True...it is no big deal for a teenager to get pregnant. It happens thousands of times a day.

What is a big deal is that her own mother --the nominee for Vice President-- is a holier-than-thou fundamentalist bitch who has come out strongly against just this sort of so-called "immorality".

It seems that from the Repukelican perspective it is only "immoral" if someone else does it....you know; like some 'e-ville' liberal.

When her own daughter screws around and gets pregnant, we're all now supposed to just ignore it and give Sarah Palin a pass on her incredible HYPOCRISY in this matter.......?!?!?!?!

Get real.

(not that there is anything the slightest bit surprising in finding out that she is yet another rightwing Fundy hypocrite with a **"Do as I say, not as I do!"** attitude ...... the same attitude that so many rightwing zombies espouse)

Couldn't have said it better, FT.

The fact is, you conservatives preach family values but rarely practice them.
C'mon.....it's different, for them....... :rolleyes:

1998 - http://www.salon.com/col/cona/1998/09/21cona.html

http://www.realchange.org/gingrich.htm#adultery

Hey, what are the odds that this information was withheld from the mccaine campaigne untill now?
Supposedly, McBush knew about it.

"John McCain was aware of Bristol Palin's pregnancy before he chose her mother for his running mate, a top adviser to the Republican presidential candidate said."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html

Originally Posted by Echo2
Hey, what are the odds that this information was withheld from the mccaine campaigne untill now?

Supposedly, McBush knew about it.

I have no doubt that he knew beforehand.

What the fuck should the McCain camp care?

They knew the Corporate mainstream media would whitewash it and make little if any stir about it.

Palin's daughter was just one of the unlucky few to get pregnant.
Unlucky???

Hell, it's lookin' like the Evans are damned-near ready to declare it a Virgin-Birth!!

"Before, they were excited about her, with the Down syndrome baby," conservative, anti-tax activist Grover Norquist said. "But now with this, they are over the moon. It reinforces the fact that this family lives its pro-life values."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.evangelicals/index.html

"Even within conservative circles, Norquist's combative personality has made enemies. Conservative columnist Tucker Carlson once called him a "mean-spirited, humorless, dishonest little creep ... the leering, drunken uncle everyone else wishes would stay home."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Grover_Norquist

I have no doubt that he knew beforehand.
Yeah.....I'm thinkin' they expect that response, from McBush-fans.

"conservative"-cynicism has traditionally been reserved for Dems. :rolleyes:

I think we've hit the bottom as far as how low people will go to get supposed "dirt" on someone...

This is so tasteless and double standard filled.. it's humorous.

"Before, they were excited about her, with the Down syndrome baby," conservative, anti-tax activist Grover Norquist said. "But now with this, they are over the moon. It reinforces the fact that this family lives its pro-life values."

That is, bar none, the sickest, most bizarre, most insane thing I have ever read on these boards.

For an ostensibly sane human being to opine that it is somehow a positive thing for a pregnant woman and her family to be **over the moon** about the fact that the fetus she is carrying is afflicted with Down's Syndrome tops them all.

It makes me want to puke, knowing I inhabit the same planet as such people.

For an ostensibly sane human being to opine that it is somehow a positive thing for a pregnant woman and her family to be **over the moon** about the fact that the fetus she is carrying is afflicted with Down's Syndrome tops them all.


explain to me how you are unlike an Adolph Hitler in that you wish to cleanse humanity of those with disabilities...

What is a big deal is that her own mother --the nominee for Vice President-- is a holier-than-thou fundamentalist bitch who has come out strongly against just this sort of so-called "immorality".

It seems that from the Repukelican perspective it is only "immoral" if someone else does it....you know; like some 'e-ville' liberal.

When her own daughter screws around and gets pregnant, we're all now supposed to just ignore it and give Sarah Palin a pass on her incredible HYPOCRISY in this matter.......?!?!?!?!

Get real.

(not that there is anything the slightest bit surprising in finding out that she is yet another rightwing Fundy hypocrite with a **"Do as I say, not as I do!"** attitude ...... the same attitude that so many rightwing zombies espouse)

What is she being hypocritical about? Is she supposed to disown her daughter because she didn't follow what she preached? I think it's fine to criticize Palin for her views, I don't agree with them myself, but using her daughter as a vehicle to do so isn't the way to do it.

explain to me how you are unlike an Adolph Hitler in that you wish to cleanse humanity of those with disabilities...

If you are attempting to make me believe that you cannot --in some small way-- perceive how abominable, how inhuman and how insane it would be for a woman to knowingly give birth to a child with Down's Syndrome, you have failed.

Very true Carbon. It's the double standard on Christians. We have small people crying "AWWWWW You're in Troubbllleeeee" ... As if the only way you are a credible Christian is if you are perfect. This is beyond politics. This is hatred of humanity because of an R next to someone's name. I don't know if I've ever seen people tread so low. Any other family would be praised by the folk in here because they didn't adhere to Christian values.. that's the norm on these boards. Next time these folk get a speeding ticket, or get in an accident... I'll have to ask "You have a license.. I thought that meant you knew how to drive?"

If you are attempting to make me believe that you cannot --in some small way-- perceive how abominable, how inhuman and how insane it would be for a woman to knowingly give birth to a child with Down's Syndrome, you have failed.

I'm not the one putting value in human stock.. and saying this person is better than that person. You are. :thumbs:

What is she being hypocritical about? Is she supposed to disown her daughter because she didn't follow what she preached?

Nope.

She is supposed to admit -"You know, on this whole 'immorality' thing, I have been a complete and total hypocrite. I feel differently now that it is my own daughter that's gotten pregnant, and I now, suddenly, have a radically different view on it."

I think it's fine to criticize Palin for her views, I don't agree with them myself, but using her daughter as a vehicle to do so isn't the way to do it.

I am simply pointing out how incredibly dishonest (i.e., hypocritical) she -Sarah Palin- has demonstrated herself to be on this issue.

Is that *fine* with you?

I think we've hit the bottom as far as how low people will go to get supposed "dirt" on someone...
Whew!! How old are you??!!! :confused:

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/03/18newsb.html

For an ostensibly sane human being to opine that it is somehow a positive thing for a pregnant woman and her family to be **over the moon** about the fact that the fetus she is carrying is afflicted with Down's Syndrome tops them all.
Noooooooooooo.....he's suggesting the Evans are all excited about her daughters (outside-of-marriage) pregnancy.

Did Palin have the baby or did her daughter have it?

How can Palin be hypocritical if her daughter had the baby? Well I guess Obama is a hypocrite because of HIS family.. right?

explain to me how you are unlike an Adolph Hitler in that you wish to cleanse humanity of those with disabilities...
Awwww, jeeeezzzzz.....back to the Hitler-analogy. :rolleyes:

You fans-of-"conservatives" certainly are obsessed with Hitler.....much like your obsession with Gays.

classic defense mechanism sham... you would make psych professors acrossed america proud to be so right :thumbs:

I think it's fine to criticize Palin for her views, I don't agree with them myself, but using her daughter as a vehicle to do so isn't the way to do it.
Yeah....I'm sure "conservatives" would have held-their-fire if Chelsea Clinton had gotten pregnant. :rolleyes:

Nope.

She is supposed to admit -"You know, on this whole 'immorality' thing, I have been a complete and total hypocrite. I feel differently now that it is my own daughter that's gotten pregnant, and I now, suddenly, have a radically different view on it."
A Republican flip-flop???

I don't think they do that. Just ask them.

Yeah....I'm sure "conservatives" would have held-their-fire if Chelsea Clinton had gotten pregnant. :rolleyes:
Could you IMAGINE the reaction if she had gotten pregnant??????

One-sided, conservative-Republican worshippers like Decka would be ALL over that!

classic defense mechanism sham... you would make psych professors acrossed america proud to be so right :thumbs:
Yeah.....I guess I need to put more effort into following your lead. :rolleyes:

How can Palin be hypocritical if her daughter had the baby? Well I guess Obama is a hypocrite because of HIS family.. right?

"Fortunately, Bristol (Palin) is following her mother and father's example of choosing life in the midst of a difficult situation," Family Research Council president Tony Perkins said. "We are committed to praying for Bristol and her husband-to-be and the entire Palin family as they walk through a very private matter in the eyes of the public."

Evangelical leader Richard Land also backed Palin completely.

"This is the pro-life choice. The fact that people will criticize her for this shows the astounding extent to which the secular critics of the pro-life movement just don't get it," Land said in a statement.

"Those who criticize the Palin family don't understand that we don't see babies as a punishment but as a blessing. Barack Obama said that if one of his daughters made a mistake and got pregnant out of wedlock, he wouldn't want her to be punished with a child. Pro-lifers don't see a child as punishment."

The immediate support of these major figures, who offered universal praise for the Palins' actions after learning their daughter was pregnant, provides the filter through which conservative Christian voters will process the development."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Give me a fucking break.

IF it had been the daughter of the Democratic candidate who'd screwed around and gotten pregnant, the SAME band of sanctimonious RightWing hypocrites (who are so vocal in their support of Bristol Palin) mentioned above would be screaming to the high heavens about what an evil, immoral godless slut she is.

And every rightwing poster on these boards knows it.

I guess if you say so, it's true.

If our economy goes down with a democrat in office.. you KNOW that the republicans would go buy ugly hats and watch "Happy Days" reruns...

And every rightwing poster on these boards KNOWS IT

:rolleyes:

Couldn't have said it better, FT.
The above just sums up the new Overdose!



I'm suprised you'd judge a parent so harshly because her daughter got pregnant.
But that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

There are other people who'd judge a mother harshly if her son turned out gay.
But that's their opinion and they are entitled to it.

You are like them.

Free, your last post makes me think you'd be happier if this story ended in death.

Could you IMAGINE the reaction if she had gotten pregnant??????

One-sided, conservative-Republican worshippers like Decka would be ALL over that!
Don't forget about McBush. With him, there doesn't even need to be a pregnancy....

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html

At least, she got the last laugh.....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/images/2008/03/25/chelseacreuters.jpeg

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/03/08/chelsea.clinton.ap/

(.....While McBush remains a kept-man.... :rolleyes: )

I guess if you don't drink the Obama cool-aid, you are automatically a republican worshipper.... I am in no way a republican.

Decka is probably the most un-balanced person on Allforums.

He's a partisan hack. A true worshiper of the Republican party and everything conservatism stands for.

Decka is probably the most un-balanced person on Allforums.
Why does the person who most despises the fact that AFN posters sometimes get nasty lets loose with character attacks of this sort? Decka and I have our differences, to be sure, but the last thing I'd call him is unbalanced. Call him something else, naive, out-of-touch, hopelessly idealistic, those would be better. On the whole though, I'd say he's pretty balanced, more so than most college kids his age.

Why does the person who most despises the fact that AFN posters sometimes get nasty lets loose with character attacks of this sort? Decka and I have our differences, to be sure, but the last thing I'd call him is unbalanced. Call him something else, naive, out-of-touch, hopelessly idealistic, those would be better. On the whole though, I'd say he's pretty balanced, more so than most college kids his age.
You really buy into his facade of being "balanced"????

He always says how he can see "both sides", but conveniently always ends up on the side of the Republicans. I'm surprised you're so gullible. That's surprising.

PS: I only let loose on Decka. He's an exception. :)

"Fortunately, Bristol (Palin) is following her mother and father's example of choosing life in the midst of a difficult situation," Family Research Council president Tony Perkins said. "We are committed to praying for Bristol and her husband-to-be and the entire Palin family as they walk through a very private matter in the eyes of the public."

Evangelical leader Richard Land also backed Palin completely.

"This is the pro-life choice. The fact that people will criticize her for this shows the astounding extent to which the secular critics of the pro-life movement just don't get it," Land said in a statement.

"Those who criticize the Palin family don't understand that we don't see babies as a punishment but as a blessing. Barack Obama said that if one of his daughters made a mistake and got pregnant out of wedlock, he wouldn't want her to be punished with a child. Pro-lifers don't see a child as punishment."

The immediate support of these major figures, who offered universal praise for the Palins' actions after learning their daughter was pregnant, provides the filter through which conservative Christian voters will process the development."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Give me a fucking break.

IF it had been the daughter of the Democratic candidate who'd screwed around and gotten pregnant, the SAME band of sanctimonious RightWing hypocrites (who are so vocal in their support of Bristol Palin) mentioned above would be screaming to the high heavens about what an evil, immoral godless slut she is.

And every rightwing poster on these boards knows it.

I wish I was religious. Whenever I fuck up, I could fall back on the "oh..well we are not perfect..we are all sinners..but we have forgiveness...I since I believe in the lord I am forgiven for this viiiiiilllee sin"..

But, if somebody else fucks up..they better watch the FUCK OOUT!!
"YOU are SENTENCED TO ETERNAL DAMNATION! WHERE YOU WILL BURN FOR ETERNITY!!" BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

hey but if i fuck up..well we humans are not perfect you know...but the lord forgives me. It gives you the fucking right to point fingers at others!! its all bullshit.

something from the article: "Being a Christian does not mean you're perfect," said Focus on the Family founder James Dobson. "Nor does it mean your children are perfect. But it does mean there is forgiveness and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord."

I rest my case.

This is like a fucking Jamie Lynn Spears scandal.

What a joke.

"Those who criticize the Palin family don't understand that we don't see babies as a punishment but as a blessing. Barack Obama said that if one of his daughters made a mistake and got pregnant out of wedlock, he wouldn't want her to be punished with a child. Pro-lifers don't see a child as punishment."
'Tis true. If the daughters of parents-of-means get pregnant, it's "a blessing"!

Now....if it's the daughter of those people (i.e. low-income minorities), it's "irresponsible-behavior"....and, she "...needs to accept responsibility for her actions." (i.e. pay for her "mistake" by living-in-poverty).

What.....those people should be rewarded with offers of continuing their education, or <gasp> actually considering college??!!! What would God think about that?!!! Punishment is the (obvious) course-of-action!!

If our economy goes down with a democrat in office.. you KNOW that the republicans would go buy ugly hats and watch "Happy Days" reruns...

And every rightwing poster on these boards KNOWS IT
Yeah.....what'll we do if Obama blows the Bush Surplus, huh? :rolleyes:

I wish I was religious. Whenever I fuck up, I could fall back on the "oh..well we are not perfect..we are all sinners..but we have forgiveness...I since I believe in the lord I am forgiven for this viiiiiilllee sin"..

But, if somebody else fucks up..they better watch the FUCK OOUT!!
"YOU are SENTENCED TO ETERNAL DAMNATION! WHERE YOU WILL BURN FOR ETERNITY!!" BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

hey but if i fuck up..well we humans are not perfect you know...but the lord forgives me. It gives you the fucking right to point fingers at others!!
What you're describing is the version of Culture War where conservatives "win".

Their version of Cultural-Engineering is the "proper"-one....the "more-compassionate" one. :rolleyes:

Anyone who thinks this is a serious campaign issue really needs to get his priorities straight.

I rest my case.
I read your post and don't quite see what case you're resting.

1. This is like a f_____g Jamie Lynn Spears scandal.
2. Clearly, she didn't raise her daughter well if she's knocked up at 17.
3. Furthermore, maybe if Sarah Palin had NOT supported abstinence only education her daughter wouldn't have been so "unlucky".

1. I knew we could count on you for historical perspective.


2. So I guess in the "nature vs. nurture" argument you are a purist.
If what you're saying is true then all of her children should end up in similar situations.

And as I said, you shouldn't be so quick to judge mothers on how their children turn out. Some misguided people in this country would have things to say about your mother.
But go ahead, continue criticizing Ms. Palin for being judgemental.


3. Abstinence works, not abstinence education.

If this were a Democrat, the Republicans would be saying...

"Look how immoral they are in raising children!"

"How selfish that a mother with a pregnant daughter and a child with down syndrome is running for VP"

"How horrible that a mother would subject her children through this scrutiny"

Yet, we hear them spin like never before!

This is actually a good thing!
This DOESN'T conflict with our values and makes us hypocrites!

Yeah riiiiight.

So, you're going to use the same tactics? Don't you believe that Democrats are above the "dirty tricks" that the Republicans use? It's ridiculous to whine about what the Republicans would've done while doing exactly the same thing.

Senator Obama has said it's unseemly to bring a politician's family into the fray.

The Senator is a gentleman.

And he is himself the son of an 18 year old mother.

It's ridiculous to whine about what the Republicans would've done while doing exactly the same thing.
Well put.

Rachel Maddow of Air America spent much of her show last night talking about the scandal and then saying how it shouldn't matter, doesn't matter to her, and we shouldn't be talking about it.

Anderson Cooper (paraphrasing): Next up we're going to be talking about Bristol Palin, how it affects the McCain campaign and whether we should be talking about it or not.


It's a way to keep it out there while, supposedly, not to being hypocritical.

This thread is so stupid... Palin's daughter is 17 years old. It's not like she's a child. She made her own decision to have (presumably) unsafe sex, and i hardly think it's likely that she consulted her mother. I think blaming parents for the actions of their practically adult children is pretty ridiculous.

This thread is so stupid... Palin's daughter is 17 years old. It's not like she's a child. She made her own decision to have (presumably) unsafe sex, and i hardly think it's likely that she consulted her mother. I think blaming parents for the actions of their practically adult children is pretty ridiculous.

Here is my only criticism concerning this matter, DF.

I do not care that the 17 year old daughter had sex. Zero.

I do not care that the 17 year old daughter got pregnant out of wedlock. Zero.

I am not blaming the parents of the 17 year old daughter for her getting pregnant.

This is about the goddamned hypocrisy of the sort of hard core rightwing religionist (iow, someone exactly like Sarah Palin, a type extremely prevalent in this country) who will strut around spewing endlessly about "moraaaaality" and "family vaaaalues" and looking down their noses at the evil "sinners", yet when one of their own does something they would be endlessly denigrating someone else for having done, they act as if it's "a blessing".

The hypocrisy is simply too much to take.

So, you're going to use the same tactics? Don't you believe that Democrats are above the "dirty tricks" that the Republicans use? It's ridiculous to whine about what the Republicans would've done while doing exactly the same thing.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire in order to highlight the tactics as the problem.

Is Palin going around preaching Christian Values? Is she telling us all how to raise our kids? Or is FT just creating that in his brain for convenience?

Decka,
The answers are Yes, Yes and No.

Is Palin going around preaching Christian Values?

Gee.

Let's see..........

Sarah Palin's church -the Wasilla Assemblies of God- is holding, in one week, what it calls a "Masters Commission" in which prophecies for God and Alaska and the United States will be discussed. The leaders of that church claim that God is "invading" Alaska and say that Wasilla is the key to God's plans for the United States and the entire world. http://mparent7777-1.livejournal.com/1526804.html

The church that Palin belongs to --the Assemblies of God-- believes in such bizarre things as gifts of the spirit, speaking in tongues, faith healing, interpretation of tongues and prophecy.

Sooooo................I'm gonna hazard an answer of -"yes"- to that question.

Guilt by association eh..

So if you work for a business that was guilty of a crime, you are doomed to be a criminal?

Has Palin gone around and preached her church's message during her speeches?

Guilt by association eh..

I think it is safe to assume that a member of a cult such as the Assemblies of God is going to have a deep commitment to "Christian values".


So if you work for a business that was guilty of a crime, you are doomed to be a criminal?

No, but I think it is safe to assume that a member of a cult such as the Assemblies of God is going to have a deep commitment to "Christian values".

Has Palin gone around and preached her church's message during her speeches?

Has she ever allowed her Xtian beliefs to inform her decisions regarding government and politics?

We both know the answer to that one.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire in order to highlight the tactics as the problem.
So you don't mean what you're saying and are just saying these things to illustrate the fact that these things shouldn't be said?

Have some dignity.

Guilt by association eh..

If she dedicated a book to her racist spiritual mentor, who she never heard say bad things in 22 years in his church, Free would have less problem with it.

1. Has she ever allowed her Xtian beliefs to inform her decisions regarding government and politics?

2. We both know the answer to that one.
1. That's not what he asked.

2. Examples?

You think too simplistic FT.

Some can have christian values but still not impose them onto others. You seem to think that if you are a christian, you will want to take over any and everything and enforce your values with an iron fist. While there are those type out there, they are to be looked down upon. If Palin isn't preaching the churches values in speeches, you are just wishing for it to be true.


Well, I guess Obama hates America. His minister said "GOD DAMN AMERICA"..

Why would we vote someone into office who hates america?

Yea, Obama HATES america.. because his minister said it.. and we all can assume that since Obama is part of a "cult", he shares those values, and has no self control in enforcing those values... :rolleyes:

2. So I guess in the "nature vs. nurture" argument you are a purist. If what you're saying is true then all of her children should end up in similar situations.
I think everything has to do with a combination of nature and nurture. What are you talking about!?!?

The bottom line is, Sarah Palin and the Republican party tell people how to live their lives and preach family values. You don't see any hypocrisy with those values Sarah Palin preaches and her 17-year-old daughter becoming preganant before marriage?

Furthermore, yes, until you are in your early 20s I think the decisions people make have more to do with their parents and how they were raised.

And as I said, you shouldn't be so quick to judge mothers on how their children turn out. Some misguided people in this country would have things to say about your mother.
But go ahead, continue criticizing Ms. Palin for being judgemental.
If my mother said the reason kids are gay is because of how parents raise them and that being gay is wrong, people would have every right to say she's a hypocrite and entirely wrong to judge and preach to other people for something she herself caused and did. Luckily, she doesn't believe those things so your comparison falls flat.

The big picture is that Sarah Palin preaches family values, waiting until marriage for sex, and believes that if parents are more involved in their children's lives and teaches them morals they will turn out as moral citizens.

Maybe Sarah Palin should reevaluate her beliefs and stop judging people and telling them what to do and how to raise their children the "correct way" in-light of her 17-year-old daughters pregnancy before marriage.

3. Abstinence works, not abstinence education.
Uhh, of course abstinence works -- you learn that in contraceptive education. But maybe Sarah Palin's daughter wouldn't have become pregnant if she leanred how to use a condom properly or was allowed to be on birth control.

Again, maybe Sarah Palin should reevaluate her beliefs on the abstinence education her daughter received. It didn't seem to work out so well.

Guilt by association eh..
....Kinda like Obama's minister?

You BET!!

I think everything has to do with a combination of nature and nurture. What are you talking about!?!?

The bottom line is, Sarah Palin and the Republican party tell people how to live their lives and preach family values. You don't see any hypocrisy with those values Sarah Palin preaches and her 17-year-old daughter becoming preganant before marriage?

Furthermore, yes, until you are in your early 20s I think the decisions people make have more to do with their parents and how they raised them.


If my mother said the reason kids are gay is because of how parents raise them and that being gay is wrong, people would have every right to say she's a hypocrite and entirely wrong to judge and preach to other people for something she herself caused and did. Luckily, she doesn't believe those things so your comparison falls flat.

The big picture is that Sarah Palin preaches family values, waiting until marriage for sex, and believes that if parents are more involved in their children's lives and teaches them morals they will turn out as moral citizens.

Maybe she should reevaluate her beliefs and stop judging people and telling them what to do and how to raise their children the "correct way" in-light of her 17-year-old daughters pregnancy before marriage.


Uhh, of course abstinence works -- you learn that in contraceptive education. But maybe Sarah Palin's daughter wouldn't have become pregnant if she leanred how to use a condom properly or was allowed to be on birth control.

Again, maybe Sarah Palin should reevaluate her beliefs on the abstinence education her daughter received.

That was rather humourous. Pissed off because Palin is apparently telling people how to live their lives and then telling Palin what she should do. Now that is rich.

That was rather humourous. Pissed off because Palin is apparently telling people how to live their lives and then telling Palin what she should do. Now that is rich.
I said she should reevaluate her positions so they are consistent with how she runs her life. I never said she should change her ways, just her positions so I can see some consistency.

Here is my only criticism concerning this matter, DF.

I do not care that the 17 year old daughter had sex. Zero.

I do not care that the 17 year old daughter got pregnant out of wedlock. Zero.

I am not blaming the parents of the 17 year old daughter for her getting pregnant.

This is about the goddamned hypocrisy of the sort of hard core rightwing religionist (iow, someone exactly like Sarah Palin, a type extremely prevalent in this country) who will strut around spewing endlessly about "moraaaaality" and "family vaaaalues" and looking down their noses at the evil "sinners", yet when one of their own does something they would be endlessly denigrating someone else for having done, they act as if it's "a blessing".

The hypocrisy is simply too much to take.

How does this make Sarah Palin a hypocrite? Her daughter is the one pregnant out of wedlock. Do you know her daughter personally? Maybe the daughter is a rebelious young lady looking to prove something. Maybe she just loves sex and accidentally got pregnant. Maybe it was just a fuck-up. No pun intended. But no matter what, her actions do not make Sarah Polin a hypocrite.

Sarah Polin is making the best of a bad situation. Would it make you feel better were she to disown her own daughter over a pregnancy? Would you then feel she wasnt a hypocrite?

Try living in the real world one time. You know, the one where you do not control every action your children make, and they sometimes do things that embarass you.

I said she should reevaluate her positions so they are consistent with how she runs her life. I never said she should change her ways, just her positions so I can see some consistency.
OD....do you really think you or someone like you is her target constituency? You're never going to like this woman, no matter what. All because of the letter in front of her name. {R}

How does this make Sarah Palin a hypocrite? Her daughter is the one pregnant out of wedlock. Do you know her daughter personally? Maybe the daughter is a rebelious young lady looking to prove something. Maybe she just loves sex and accidentally got pregnant. Maybe it was just a fuck-up. No pun intended. But no matter what, her actions do not make Sarah Polin a hypocrite.

Sarah Polin is making the best of a bad situation. Would it make you feel better were she to disown her own daughter over a pregnancy? Would you then feel she wasnt a hypocrite?

Try living in the real world one time. You know, the one where you do not control every action your children make, and they sometimes do things that embarass you.
I thought Republicans feel if you raise your children right, they will do right? I thought Republicans feel if you instill morals in your children, they will be moral people? I guess not when one of their own does it.

OD....do you really think you or someone like you is her target constituency? You're never going to like this woman, no matter what. All because of the letter in front of her name. {R}
Nice way to avoid the issues.

This thread is so stupid... Palin's daughter is 17 years old. It's not like she's a child. She made her own decision to have (presumably) unsafe sex, and i hardly think it's likely that she consulted her mother. I think blaming parents for the actions of their practically adult children is pretty ridiculous.
I'm inclined to agree..
I don't know how the girl was raised but you do get the impression mom is a fundie wacko.
The point is that the dumb ass girl was playing with a weenie that had no wrapper. And that's a big duh.. Teenage pregnancy is one thing(and not a gift) but the stats are way high for teens w/STDs...
Gotta wonder, was it abstinence education or safe sex education?

The other positive aspect is the Obama camp saying hands off the family shows a little class. I don't think the family and the kids should be under the media microscope since they are not running for office UNLESS something criminal or deviant surfaces like Huckabee's boy hanging the dog.

I thought Republicans feel if you raise your children right, they will do right? I thought Republicans feel if you instill morals in your children, they will be moral people? I guess not when one of their own does it.
Get your head out of your ass OD. How much control do parents really have over their children? Especially a 17 year old child? Do you follow EVERY rule your parent ever had?

Nice way to avoid the issues.This thread topic is not an issue. It's just an excuse for you and the rest of your cronies to voice the fact you dont like Palin.

I said she should reevaluate her positions so they are consistent with how she runs her life. I never said she should change her ways, just her positions so I can see some consistency.

Are you attempting to argue that this is not telling someone what to do? :rolleyes: Spare us, please.

You don't know how she lives her life. Perhaps to someone so youthful judging someone by the results is an indication of how they got there but those of us who've been around the block know better.

Get your head out of your ass OD. How much control do parents really have over their children? Especially a 17 year old child? Do you follow EVERY rule your parent ever had?
I'd think having sex and becoming pregnant before marriage would be a pretty big rule to break in that family. It isn't as if this girl stole the family car and wrecked it. She got pregnant, before marriage, at age 17!! That's a pretty BIG rule, don't you think?

It just proves instilling children with "family values" doesn't do much and judging other people who don't is wrong.

Gotta wonder, was it abstinence education or safe sex education?I'm of the opinion it really doesnt matter. People who have been educated both ways still get pregnant. The only foolproof way is abstinence, and how practical is that?






The other positive aspect is the Obama camp saying hands off the family shows a little class. I don't think the family and the kids should be under the media microscope since they are not running for office UNLESS something criminal or deviant surfaces like Huckabee's boy hanging the dog.I agree. It was the proper way to handle this situation.

However, it's part of the gig. When you become a "celebrity" for wont of a better term, you have to accept that all your skeletons are gonna come out. Even those of your family, however unfair that may be.

This thread is so stupid... Palin's daughter is 17 years old. It's not like she's a child. She made her own decision to have (presumably) unsafe sex, and i hardly think it's likely that she consulted her mother. I think blaming parents for the actions of their practically adult children is pretty ridiculous.
We aren't blaming the parents.

I'm mad that this woman JUDGES and tells other people how to raise their children and is a proponent of "family values" but then THIS happens to HER family and HER child she raised with those "family values" she preaches.

That's hypocritical and I'm disgusted she has gone around telling people they live their lives immorally, when she herself has a pregnant 17 year old daughter.

I'd think having sex and becoming pregnant before marriage would be a pretty big rule to break in that family. It isn't as if this girl stole the family car and wrecked it. She got pregnant, before marriage, at age 17!! That's a pretty BIG rule, don't you think?

It just proves instilling children with "family values" doesn't do much and judging other people who don't is wrong.

So one instance proves it doesn't work. :rolleyes: Any more 'really deep insights' you can offer?

We aren't blaming the parents.

I'm mad that this woman JUDGES and tells other people how to raise their children and is a proponent of "family values" but then THIS happens to HER family and HER child she raised with those "family values" she preaches.

That's hypocritical and I'm disgusted she has gone around telling people they live their lives immorally, when she herself has a pregnant 17 year old daughter.Bullshit. You see this as an opportunity to attack Polin, nothing more.

You say you're not blaming the parent, yet you act as though Polin's opinions on family values in some way should be held accountable for her daughter getting pregnant. That's blame.

If this had been Chelsea Clinton, Republicans would say, "THIS IS WHY WE NEED FAMILY VALUES!"..."LOOK HOW IMMORAL THE CLINTON FAMILY IS!"...

The double standard is amazing and for the Republicans to not see it is amazing to me.

You say you're not blaming the parent, yet you act as though Polin's opinions on family values in some way should be held accountable for her daughter getting pregnant. That's blame.
Yes, how you raise your children influences their decisions and how they turn out as adults.

I take it back. I do blame the parents.

Haven't you even seen freaking Willy Wonka?

When the bratty child got dropped into the garbage dispenser for eggs, who did the umpa-lumpas blame, "THE MOTHER AND THE FATHER".

This is common knowledge, HaVok. The only reason you aren't blaming the parents for the raising of this child is because it is a fellow conservative and when they mess up and make a mistake it's OK. But if a Democrat were to do it they'd be labeled as "immoral" and you would us it as a reason for why we need to teach our children more "family values".

Your hypocrisy is astounding.

If this had been Chelsea Clinton, Republicans would say, "THIS IS WHY WE NEED FAMILY VALUES!"..."LOOK HOW IMMORAL THE CLINTON FAMILY IS!"...

The double standard is amazing and for the Republicans to not see it is amazing to me."IF".......

Why are you bringing your jaded opinons on what could have been into this?

Sure, it may have happened. Truth is, it didnt. Quit judging republicans on what you "think" their reactions would be. Quit hiding the fact you hate anything republican, and embrace it. :bighug:

These fools are weaving the rope they will hang themselves with. If they want to go down the road of hypocrisy let them lead the way.

Yes, how you raise your children influences their decisions and how they turn out as adults.

I take it back. I do blame the parents.

Haven't you even seen freaking Willy Wonka?

When the bratty child got dropped into the garbage dispenser for eggs, who did the umpa-lumpas blame, "THE MOTHER AND THE FATHER".

This is common knowledge, HaVok. The only reason you aren't blaming the parents for their raising of this child is because it is a fellow conservative and when they mess up and make a mistake it's OK. But if a Democrat were to do it they'd be labeled as "immoral" and you would us it as a reason for why we need to teach our children more "family values".

Your hypocrisy is astounding.LoL.....that is your opinon, and you're entitled to it. However, you're wrong. I would no more blame Barry if one of his children wind up pregnant than I would Polin.

In fact, look back at all the posts I've ever made. I've always said we are all responsible for our own actions, and age has never been an issue for me.

If this had been Chelsea Clinton, Republicans would say, "THIS IS WHY WE NEED FAMILY VALUES!"..."LOOK HOW IMMORAL THE CLINTON FAMILY IS!"...

The double standard is amazing and for the Republicans to not see it is amazing to me.

It begs the question. Do you think society should have family values or not. If so, what should they consist of? And if we don't should there be anything to replace it or should everyone merely do as they please?

LoL.....that is your opinon, and you're entitled to it. However, you're wrong. I would no more blame Barry if one of his children wind up pregnant than I would Polin.

In fact, look back at all the posts I've ever made. I've always said we are all responsible for our own actions, and age has never been an issue for me.
So you actually feel that Sarah Palin, who preaches family values and tells others that if they teach their children family values they will turn out "right", ends up having a pregnant un-wed, 17-year old daughter, isn't at all a hypocrite and shouldn't possibly reevaluate her positions???!??!!??!!??!!

And you say I'm partisan.

So you actually feel that Sarah Palin, who preaches family values and tells others that if they teach their children family values they will turn out "right", ends up having a pregnant un-wed, 17-year old daughter, isn't at all a hypocrite and shouldn't possibly reevaluate her positions???!??!!??!!??!!

And you say I'm partisan.I'm saying that if Barrack Obama's young daughters rob a liquor store on their 16th birthday, it is not Barry's fault. He loves his children and has done everything possible to give them a good life. What they do with their opportunities is up to them. Their actions are not a reflection on him. How partisan is that?

I'm saying that if Barrack Obama's young daughters rob a liquor store on their 16th birthday, it is not Barry's fault. He loves his children and has done everything possible to give them a good life. What they do with their opportunities is up to them. Their actions are not a reflection on him. How partisan is that?
Is Obama out preaching about how 16-year-olds robbing liquor stores is wrong? NO.

For you to not see the difference between your example and the fact that Sarah Palin is a supporter of "family values" and preaches to others to live accordingly, you're truly missing the BIG picture.

Is Obama out preaching about how 16-year-olds robbing liquor stores is wrong? NO.

For you to not see the difference between your example and the fact that Sarah Palin is a supporter of "family values" and preaches to others to live accordingly, you're truly missing the BIG picture.I'm not missing anything here OD. I've called you out on what this whole thread was about from the very beginning. You do not like Palin, I get it. I really do.