I have taken the time to read-over the top twenty threads in the Politics Forum here on allforums.
You people are amazing.

You are so polarized, and so conditioned to attack the ‘other side’, and are so fanatically intent on ‘winning this election for our side, at every cost’, that you have lost sight of exactly what it is that is at stake.

This is a nation, a market, and a world economy, that is standing on the precipice of either incredible change, or incredible stagnation. Additionally, (and more significant perhaps) everything that you have come to take for granted is something inherited, and also something that that only complete and utter nuclear annihilation will take away from you.

Conveyances and pathways. (streets, roads, highways, cars, motorcycles, computers, i-phones, Blackberry’s, the internet)

Communications and entertainment. (telephones, cell phones, television, theatre, computers, cd players, mp3 players, i-phones, Blackberry’s, the internet)

Medical marvels. (the near defeat of cancer. Human cloning. Artificial intelligence. Robotic surgeries. High-tech limb replacement. Cialis and Viagra. Four-hour boners.)

Military might. (Digital battlefields. LASER-guided munitions. SATCOM. Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. Attack helicopters and fighter jets with more combat payload and substantial, quantifiable killing ability than an entire Armor Battalion, and more computer fidelity and capacity than the entire NASA Apollo, Skylab, and STS program mainframes put together.)

Hope. (The eventual defeat of cancer. And AIDS. And war. And poverty, rap music, saggy shorts, Billy Mays, and loud, annoying infomercials. The death penalty for drivers who ride around with cell phones glued to their ears, the whole time munching on McDonalds French Fries and sipping on a diet soda.)

You are knee-jerk, lock-step, anti-everything that the other side presents to the popular TV and internet media tools. You are playing right into the Party spin-doctors hands. In fact, you are doing their jobs for them.

Step back for a moment, and take a look at yourselves.
Evaluate exactly what it is that you are throwing all this time and energy into either attacking or defending.
Are you formulating independent and thoughtful opinions, based upon well-researched evidence and facts? Or are you buying the party line and barking the party line, at the top of your angry and misguided lungs?

Are you the player, or the played?

Barack Obama, Sarah Palin, John McCain, and Joe Biden.
They are all good people, each in their own right.
They all have strong qualifications, and they all have human weaknesses and foibles.
They are not the devil, and they are not the be all and end all to your salvation or demise.
They are simply this year’s model and this year’s pissing contest du jour, in my observation.

Ford versus Chevy.
New Coke versus Coke Classic.
Auburn versus Alabama.
Mac versus Microsoft PC.
Dems versus Conservatives.
Obama versus McCain.
Their running mate’s kids and spouses versus the popular news media’s cameras and invasive ‘journalistic standards’.

Predictable internet forum Democrat-affiliated jackasses versus predictable internet forum Republican-affiliated jackasses.

You have a choice here.
You can be tools for these two parties (and attack each other blindly), or you can think for yourselves and evaluate the evidence and information thoughtfully and in an intelligent manner. And post/vote accordingly.


It’s up to you.
How are you going to conduct yourselves?

:confused: :) :( :confused: :cool: :confused: :mad: :confused:

Barack Obama, Sarah Palin, John McCain, and Joe Biden.
They are all good people, each in their own right.

Noooo.....they are all corporate toadies, in 'their own right'.

They represent exactly the sort of pro-war, pro-Corporate, anti-populist leadership that WILL cause this country to continue to self-destruct.

You have a choice here.

Yeah. Sure.

A "choice".

Bud versus Bud Lite.

97% polyester versus 99% polyester.

IOW, a totally meaningless choice.

A meaningless choice is NO choice at all.

Then STFU and don't vote already. We are tired of your crap freethinker. Dead tired.

Then STFU and don't vote already. We are tired of your crap freethinker. Dead tired.
:bighug:

This happens every election season, Sparky.

Then STFU and don't vote already. We are tired of your crap freethinker. Dead tired.
There are 2(count 'em), 2 sides to a coin.
Please try not to come off as a sanctimonious prick, unless that is what you are shootin' for...
Not trying to be condescending but how about an actual conversation, an exchange of opinion..
Whatcha think?

sorry, I was talking to freethinker, the guy is dense. You can not exchange anything with him.

sorry, I was talking to freethinker, the guy is dense. You can not exchange anything with him.
I find it ironic that the sparkster is sharing his delightful insight,
This from the guy(former mod?) who felt it necessary to follow Shamans id and exploit him BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LIKE HIS POSTS!
Someone should piss in the tank of his old Honda avatar and see how it runs.

And BTW ft may be out there on the edge sometimes but he always questions the powers that be and those that may someday intrude into YOUR comfort zone.
It is by no means wrong to question the abuse of power.
Speaking out or up serves to strengthen your rights and mine.

excuse the lecture, maybe ot...;)

I have taken the time to read-over the top twenty threads in the Politics Forum here on allforums.
You people are amazing.

You are so polarized, and so conditioned to attack the ‘other side’, and are so fanatically intent on ‘winning this election for our side, at every cost’, that you have lost sight of exactly what it is that is at stake.

This is a nation, a market, and a world economy, that is standing on the precipice of either incredible change, or incredible stagnation. Additionally, (and more significant perhaps) everything that you have come to take for granted is something inherited, and also something that that only complete and utter nuclear annihilation will take away from you.

Conveyances and pathways. (streets, roads, highways, cars, motorcycles, computers, i-phones, Blackberry’s, the internet)

Communications and entertainment. (telephones, cell phones, television, theatre, computers, cd players, mp3 players, i-phones, Blackberry’s, the internet)

Medical marvels. (the near defeat of cancer. Human cloning. Artificial intelligence. Robotic surgeries. High-tech limb replacement. Cialis and Viagra. Four-hour boners.)

Military might. (Digital battlefields. LASER-guided munitions. SATCOM. Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. Attack helicopters and fighter jets with more combat payload and substantial, quantifiable killing ability than an entire Armor Battalion, and more computer fidelity and capacity than the entire NASA Apollo, Skylab, and STS program mainframes put together.)

Hope. (The eventual defeat of cancer. And AIDS. And war. And poverty, rap music, saggy shorts, Billy Mays, and loud, annoying infomercials. The death penalty for drivers who ride around with cell phones glued to their ears, the whole time munching on McDonalds French Fries and sipping on a diet soda.)

You are knee-jerk, lock-step, anti-everything that the other side presents to the popular TV and internet media tools. You are playing right into the Party spin-doctors hands. In fact, you are doing their jobs for them.

Step back for a moment, and take a look at yourselves.
Evaluate exactly what it is that you are throwing all this time and energy into either attacking or defending.
Are you formulating independent and thoughtful opinions, based upon well-researched evidence and facts? Or are you buying the party line and barking the party line, at the top of your angry and misguided lungs?

Are you the player, or the played?

Barack Obama, Sarah Palin, John McCain, and Joe Biden.
They are all good people, each in their own right.
They all have strong qualifications, and they all have human weaknesses and foibles.
They are not the devil, and they are not the be all and end all to your salvation or demise.
They are simply this year’s model and this year’s pissing contest du jour, in my observation.

Ford versus Chevy.
New Coke versus Coke Classic.
Auburn versus Alabama.
Mac versus Microsoft PC.
Dems versus Conservatives.
Obama versus McCain.
Their running mate’s kids and spouses versus the popular news media’s cameras and invasive ‘journalistic standards’.

Predictable internet forum Democrat-affiliated jackasses versus predictable internet forum Republican-affiliated jackasses.

You have a choice here.
You can be tools for these two parties (and attack each other blindly), or you can think for yourselves and evaluate the evidence and information thoughtfully and in an intelligent manner. And post/vote accordingly.


It’s up to you.
How are you going to conduct yourselves?

:confused: :) :( :confused: :cool: :confused: :mad: :confused:

((((((((((((((((((((((((((( * ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))



Even an Abject Bigoted Martian wood have to conclude :


Democrats Lie
Republicans Talk Turkey

Someone should piss in the tank of his old Honda avatar and see how it runs.
Oh come now that's just plain mean!

Good post, Sparky.

I find it ironic that the sparkster is sharing his delightful insight,
This from the guy(former mod?) who felt it necessary to follow Shamans id and exploit him BECAUSE HE DIDN'T LIKE HIS POSTS!
Someone should piss in the tank of his old Honda avatar and see how it runs.

And BTW ft may be out there on the edge sometimes but he always questions the powers that be and those that may someday intrude into YOUR comfort zone.
It is by no means wrong to question the abuse of power.
Speaking out or up serves to strengthen your rights and mine.

excuse the lecture, maybe ot...;)

Nice.
Exactly what did I do to piss in Shaman's cornflakes?
Oh yeah. I called him out as a shill for the Clintons.
I offer no apologies for that, thank you very much.
Left is left, and right is right.
But shameless devotion to that particular power-base is just plain wrong.
I don't care who you are, or what your Party affiliation.
Being a lap-dog and cheerleader for Bill and Hillary is just an affront to the sensibilities of any reasonable, progressive tax-paying citizen.


Now, to the allegation that I followed his ID, and exploited him?
Come on now.
Explain how that is even possible, ma'am.
(Or, good God. Did you actually believe for one moment that I back-tracked him thru his IP address, found his home address and SSN, and read his tax returns? Come on. That was all an assertion offered in good humor. Only a fool would believe that was possible, my good lady.)

Please clarify.
Is that your honest belief?

:confused:

Oh come now that's just plain mean!
Well maybe.. but remember I am an equal opportunity offender.. whether I try to or not , it just seems to be..

HEY I had a 450 Super Sport.. Yeah Super Sport... fun but weak..
I shoulda had a 750...but then you guys may not have had me here enjoying my presence....bwahhha..

I think you are speaking to mostly dead ears Sparky. I wish we could debate these people like civilized humans.. but when you have ultimatums thrown out such as "You don't agree with me so therefore you are a (insert party here)-supporting, radical hack"... It's just not even worth the trouble. Most people I attempt to debate with on here just want to win, they want their side to win. They don't care about educating themselves to find the person that best fits them. They have committed to a person and will defend them as their own personal lord and savior.

It's the whole "Either you are with me or you are against me" logic that many people have condemned on here, especially when Bush said it, but yet use in their own politics.

Nice.
Exactly what did I do to piss in Shaman's cornflakes?
Oh yeah. I called him out as a shill for the Clintons.
I offer no apologies for that, thank you very much.
Left is left, and right is right.
But shameless devotion to that particular power-base is just plain wrong.
I don't care who you are, or what your Party affiliation.
Being a lap-dog and cheerleader for Bill and Hillary is just an affront to the sensibilities of any reasonable, progressive tax-paying citizen.


Now, to the allegation that I followed his ID, and exploited him?
Come on now.
Explain how that is even possible, ma'am.

(Or, good God. Did you actually believe for one moment that I back-tracked him thru his IP address, found his home address and SSN, and read his tax returns? Come on. That was all an assertion offered in good humor. Only a fool would believe that was possible, my good lady.)

Please clarify.
Is that your honest belief?

:confused:

ok I'm IT challanged.. you said it and and I thought you did it...
one of the guys used to have a moniker that id'd your ip..so being kind of stupid and apparently guilable.. well you get it..
well maybe you don't ... my name is jim...not "my good lady"

and btw.. on this we both agree..
"But shameless devotion to that particular power-base is just plain wrong."

I think you are speaking to mostly dead ears Sparky. I wish we could debate these people like civilized humans.. but when you have ultimatums thrown out such as "You don't agree with me so therefore you are a (insert party here)-supporting, radical hack"... It's just not even worth the trouble. Most people I attempt to debate with on here just want to win, they want their side to win. They don't care about educating themselves to find the person that best fits them. They have committed to a person and will defend them as their own personal lord and savior.
It's the whole "Either you are with me or you are against me" logic that many people have condemned on here, especially when Bush said it, but yet use in their own politics.

Ok bubba the last part was "Bushspeak".. with us or against us was his mantra not mine or these folks..
Did you want to talk about Obama or McCain or the mythology behind "their own personal savior"(OY!)
It's getting late and I want to listen to some music, but I will get back to you...just let me know..
I enjoy the conversation but not the talking points BS.. have a good evening...

to give it context..Alison Krauss on Ovation tv..bye

ok I'm IT challanged.. you said it and and I thought you did it...
one of the guys used to have a moniker that id'd your ip..so being kind of stupid and apparently guilable.. well you get it..
well maybe you don't ... my name is jim...not "my good lady"
My most sincere apologies, Jim.
I've taken to posting without my eyeglasses lately. (I've been taking them off and leaving them in the Subaru for the evening drive home from work, in favor of my prescription sunglasses.)
My mind's eye was seeing 'Elemental Jin', and for some reason I had it in my head that you were a gal.
Dummy me.

(I actually went for over a year thinking that Rendova was a fellow. Mega-dummy me.)

and btw.. on this we both agree..
"But shameless devotion to that particular power-base is just plain wrong."

I too am glad we agree on that point.
The demonstrated devotion of some folks to the Clinton's is a perplexing and curious thing.
I liken it to some Brit's devotion (and rabid, fan-like following) of the Royals.
I'm stymied over that too.
But then again, I don't understand the popularity of the supermarket 'celebrity gossip' magazines either.
What does the common man or woman care who Jennifer Anniston is currently dating, how much weight Brittney Spears has gained or lost, and what the Olsen twins wore to the disco last month?
Strange and sad it is, in a way.

I think the furor of many of the issues about the trivia is media driven. Their is a furor about the celebrity and what they care about things. Much of that is the public relations hack getting the story in media, and many of the news department are owned by some of the entertainment divisions. It is good for ratings. Much of the rest is the the coverage of sex, violence and sensationalizing of news to get better ratings. Ratings sell higher commercial rates.

Their is a kernel of truth to why some of the sensationalizing news that can be useful. Not only the issues are the decision of whom I vote for. The other part that I consider is important is the character and personality of the candidate. If they have some weakness of they handle the campaign, it will tend to show their ability of handling the office. For example, I don't think it is important that Sarah Palin's daughter being pregnancy matters anything about either Palin or McCain. What is important about it is whether McCain handled vetting the job of nominating the Vice-President candidate. Was the decision was that thorough and well thought out or was it impulsive in the decision was made. I also wonder if when Palin, when talking with McCain before the decision was made, told about the issue to McCain. This tells me what kind of candidates are, and how I think about deciding how to vote for them.

The issues change all the time, and new problems always come along. I think it is saw important to to look for the man instead of the issues, because the most issues of the officeholders decisions need to make are the ones they will have to make to what happens that were never thought in the campaign. If you look in the campaign in 2000, there was almost nothing about what they will deal with a major terrorist attack in the United States that killed thousands of Americans, and what they would do. It was what they did need to make that decision.

I have taken the time to read-over the top twenty threads in the Politics Forum here on allforums.
You people are amazing.

You are so polarized, and so conditioned to attack the ‘other side’, and are so fanatically intent on ‘winning this election for our side, at every cost’, that you have lost sight of exactly what it is that is at stake.
....More-often-referred-to as An American-Tradition.... :rolleyes:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_rove_machine_rolls_on

Comrade Sparks, I can see your point. The best example of late maybe being Mrs Palins, daughters pregnancy.
How this would equate as to her performance in Government, I simply dont know, tho ODs thread is taking a pounding, so.

I believe American voters have a choice here.

[1] Voting Republican is seen as voting for whats best for America, full stop.

[2] Voting Democrat is seen as voting for whats best for America and the World.

There is very little difference between the two.

So lets see some of that bi-partisan debate comrade, when your not wiretapping Mr Shaman.

Comrade Sparks, I can see your point. The best example of late maybe being Mrs Palins, daughters pregnancy.
How this would equate as to her performance in Government, I simply dont know, tho ODs thread is taking a pounding, so.

I believe American voters have a choice here.

[1] Voting Republican is seen as voting for whats best for America, full stop.

[2] Voting Democrat is seen as voting for whats best for America and the World.

There is very little difference between the two.

So lets see some of that bi-partisan debate comrade, when your not wiretapping Mr Shaman.
The problem is how the Republicans frame this entire election.

Last night at their convention it was "Country First" theme. Implying Democrats don't put their country first.

That's offensive and turns off many voters.

The problem is how the Republicans frame this entire election.

Last night at their convention it was "Country First" theme. Implying Democrats don't put their country first.

That's offensive and turns off many voters.

I understand that OD. The Republican Party, and its supporters, even here, come across as arrogant when it comes to patriotism.

A good example being the 'support the troops' campaign.

Republicans equate that campaign with a ''we're more patriotic than you'' finger pointing scenario.

Ive been called Anti American on many occasions here, yet Im not, I simply dont think extreme American Nationalism is healthy for the planet.

Republicans make many many errors in policy, and simply wrap it up in stars and stripes, the scary thing being, Americans buy it.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1126/cover2xc3.jpg

Good way for many people who don't know or pay attention to politics to get to know Sarah Palin.

Babies, Lies & Scandal.

Even I don't agree with that.

But you have to admit, it will be hard for the Republicans to make up this kind of damage (read the print on the top right! OUCH!!!)

Hmm, I wonder if McCain would have chosen Romney if he knew then what he knows now ?

I think you are speaking to mostly dead ears Sparky. I wish we could debate these people like civilized humans.. but when you have ultimatums thrown out such as "You don't agree with me so therefore you are a (insert party here)-supporting, radical hack"... It's just not even worth the trouble. Most people I attempt to debate with on here just want to win, they want their side to win. They don't care about educating themselves to find the person that best fits them. They have committed to a person and will defend them as their own personal lord and savior.

It's the whole "Either you are with me or you are against me" logic that many people have condemned on here, especially when Bush said it, but yet use in their own politics.

Nothing wrong with picking or taking sides.It's like assuming not everyone has
bias or a prejudice.EVERYONE has prejudice.Some folk are prejudice against
meat or a Rare Steak.Some have prejudice against veggies or like elder Bush,
it was broccoli.Some folk show bias about long hair as those crackers{Easy Rider}
in the diner who dint like Hippies and long hair.There was a whole
generation of that.Hippies vs. Straights.
Man was born to take sides.Maybe in the novitiate there is little to Nun
prejudice.But I'm sure if a Nun was asked what size box of Godiva chocolates
she wants for Christman,she ain't gonna say the Small Sampler.She has a
bias for a large box.
Did that come outright.?

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1126/cover2xc3.jpg

Good way for many people who don't know or pay attention to politics to get to know Sarah Palin.

Babies, Lies & Scandal.

Even I don't agree with that.

I do agree with it.

(Nice to see the media finally aim a few questions at one of the sainted rightwing candidates. It will not be 1/10th as intense as what they put an e-ville 'liiiberal' candidate through, but still, a tiny bit of balance is welcome)

Babies, Lies & Scandal. True.

Palin DOES have an issue with a baby coming into the family. (and that's without even going into the questions of whether or not she previously pretended to be pregnant to cover for her daughter's pregnancy)

She DID lie (although she seems to now be confessing) about the pregnancy.

There IS a scandal involving her firing of a public official in Alaska because he would not fire someone she personally disliked.

Babies, Lies & Scandal.

Hmm, I wonder if McCain would have chosen Romney if he knew then what he knows now ?

ROTFL.

Right now, he probably rather have Mahmoud Ahmadinejad running as his VP instead of the liar and hypocrite Sarah Palin.

__________________________

More than half the American population --and Sarah Palin too, apparently-- believes that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This represents a point in human history about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue.

US Weekly, Freethinkers kind of media :rolleyes:

http://www.drudgereport.com/us1.jpg

Hmm, I wonder if McCain would have chosen Romney if he knew then what he knows now ? Well Carl Rove wanted McCain to choose Romney. McCain wanted Lieberman. Some how he ended up picking Palin. A big mistake in my opinion but I'm certainly glad he made it!

People get offended too easily.

Too much "this means this"... If I come to a dead end, and I can only turn left or right... and I turn "left"... The nonthinkers on here will be quick to point out how I am some sort of bigot elitist for choosing left and question why I didn't turn right... If any progress was to be made, I would have to move. The decision was nothing personal. You can't win. If you sit still, you don't do anything. If you turn left, you hate right. If you turn right, you hate left. All of these assumptions make me sick to my stomach. You can't do anything anymore LOL. Let's get the personal feelings out of politics, Barack Obama is not your father.

I do agree with it.

(Nice to see the media finally aim a few questions at one of the sainted rightwing candidates. It will not be 1/10th as intense as what they put an e-ville 'liiiberal' candidate through, but still, a tiny bit of balance is welcome)

Babies, Lies & Scandal. True.

Palin DOES have an issue with a baby coming into the family. (and that's without even going into the questions of whether or not she previously pretended to be pregnant to cover for her daughter's pregnancy)

She DID lie (although she seems to now be confessing) about the pregnancy.

There IS a scandal involving her firing of a public official in Alaska because he would not fire someone she personally disliked.

Babies, Lies & Scandal. Great avatar freethinker. Palin is pro-life but does not care much for that life after its born and she approves of the state murdering people(capital punishment),doesn't believe global warming is in any way influenced by human activity, likes to shoot defenseless animals for sport, approves of teaching creationism(superstition) in public schools as a rebuttal to evolutionary science, doesn't believe in teaching sex education in school. Doesn't know much about the Iraq war or much about history, has denied health care to same sex couples-her religion bleeds into the state, she likes to kill wolves from the air. Her religion shines on and always enters the picture somewhere and so with Sarah Palin her main connection being her Church on the Rock in Wasilla which promotes NAR based heretics and dominionists YWAM. Somewhere in the back of her brain is the fanatic,End-of-Times faith-head. All this confirms McCain's mental incompetence for his choice of VP.

I guess you can throw a "right wing media" out the door.

I've heard nothing but skepticism and negativity towards Palin. "How will the republicans recover from this choice?" ... I liked the 90's.. They used to at least try to cover up the bias.

It is sickening is it not? They have criticized Palin more in the last few days then they have obama in over a year on the campaign trail. The only time they criticized Obama, or even came close to it, was when they could not sweep whatever it was under the rug anymore, or spin it away. It makes me ill to watch these people who pretend to be journalists. They are so in the tank for the Democrats, and pull no puches when they have a right wing target. Look at Palin! They thow decades of feminist "progress" out the window and pontificate about whether she should be a mother and have a job! WTF??? "Can she work and raise a family?"

Then they criticize her for subjecting her poor daughter to THEIR attacks! Like, they have no control over themselves. .....They are journalists, their job is to get to the truth.....They pull no punches for no one..... Except for Obama and Edwards! God it pisses me off. Everytime one of these democrats on this site claim there is a right wing media I just want to slap them.

Ugh that IS frustrating. I guess anyone with children can't run for office, why would they DO that to their kids??? We journalists can't stop our stalking and smearing, it's just WHAT WE DO!!!

Talk about shit for brains...

Lat I heard Obama has a couple of young kids, Is he going to be able to raise them properly? Presdient is a demanding job. will he force his wife to stay home bare foot and pregnant? It is such a crock of shit. EVERYTHING the feminist "fought" for is total bullshit! They dont care about women, they care about pushing their fucking liberal agenda! Its all bullshit! The same feminists are out there now going on and on about how they are concerned Palin may not be spending enough time at home! It is like the damn Twilight Zone out there. Am I the only one who remembers all the shit they said that they now say the opposite of in their desperate attempt to get Obama elected?

I must say, Im sure Mr Palin is ready to tank someone by now, she has been given a rough ride.
Interesting to see what she says tonite.

That could dictate the outcome of the entire election.

It will. When she goes out there strong and in charge and is unflinching, and then when Mcain goes up in the polls the media and the democrats will shit their pants. They are throwing everything they can at her right now. They have forgone any attempt to mask their objectivity and are goign for the jugular. They HAVE to get Obama elected. Damn the torpedos. Lets let it all hang out and destroy this woman NOW.

Well the women of America will watch her tonite very closely I think.
If she gets up their noses, its goodnite McCain.

Lets let it all hang out and destroy this woman NOW.

I say we just tell the truth about her.

The 'destruction' will take care of itself.

Theres an interesting video of Palin doing the rounds regards sending troops to Iraq being an 'act of God'!!!!!!

OK, as long as the truth doesnt have to filter through Wolf Blitzer first.

If she gets up their noses, its goodnite McCain.

Well, they've no doubt threatened her with doom if she dares to ""get up their noses""..........but hey.

She's a fundamentalist twit. (if you doubt it, just watch some of the videos of her pastor and that bunch of from the Wasilla Assemblies of God 'Masters Commission'. Hoo boy. )

Judgementalism, authoritarianism and the subjugation of others is their lifeblood.

Judgementalism, authoritarianism and the subjugation of others is their lifeblood.

No, that is your life blood Hitler jr.

No, that is your life blood Hitler jr.

I deplore authoritarianism and the subjugation of others. Those are cornerstones of rightwing philosophy.

I --in my thinking and my politics-- am the absolute antithesis of the sort of fundamentalist religionist type I was referring to.

Whatever. If you ask me you are an insufferable, self absorbed prick.

Good to see you didnt take it to a personal level Trav.

Great avatar freethinker. Palin is pro-life but does not care much for that life after its born and she approves of the state murdering people(capital punishment),doesn't believe global warming is in any way influenced by human activity, likes to shoot defenseless animals for sport, approves of teaching creationism(superstition) in public schools as a rebuttal to evolutionary science, doesn't believe in teaching sex education in school. Doesn't know much about the Iraq war or much about history, has denied health care to same sex couples-her religion bleeds into the state, she likes to kill wolves from the air. Her religion shines on and always enters the picture somewhere and so with Sarah Palin her main connection being her Church on the Rock in Wasilla which promotes NAR based heretics and dominionists YWAM. Somewhere in the back of her brain is the fanatic,End-of-Times faith-head. All this confirms McCain's mental incompetence for his choice of VP.
You have laid out some of the specifics that should send up red flags but for some the response is that we are being too hard on her or she's getting more criticism than Obama. Well it appears there is cause for concern. We should expect more.
I kinda like the fundie twit label.. It works..
I'll modify your last sentence.."All this confirms McCain's mental incompetence".(period)

And BTW.. You also have a nice avatar.. Mona with a spliff.. good stuff.

Great avatar freethinker.
Okay, you're not a wingnut...
Palin ... likes to shoot defenseless animals for sport.
Whatever, precious. :rolleyes:

Well the women of America will watch her tonite very closely I think.
If she gets up their noses, its goodnite McCain.
Possibly, but I doubt it. Obama's chances of getting elected are slim. When push comes to shove, you watch what happens. Mark my words on that one.

With shirts like this in circulation (and this one isn't even that offensive), this 'race' is hardly political:

http://images.cafepress.com/image/7060727_400x400.jpg

His own people are going to bury him.

hey are throwing everything they can at her right now. They have forgone any attempt to mask their objectivity and are goign for the jugular....It makes me ill to watch these people who pretend to be journalists. They are so in the tank for the Democrats, and pull no puches when they have a right wing target.And yet, I'm sure you would agree that Prae's little homeboy jpg above is nothing but a little harmless fun. Go on, man up and call him out on it, big boy. Unless you are just the other side of the same coin.

Call him out on what? That is a shirt worn by Obama SUPPORTERS genius. Maybe YOU should call THEM out on it!

You have a choice here. You can be tools for these two parties (and attack each other blindly), or you can think for yourselves and evaluate the evidence and information thoughtfully and in an intelligent manner. And post/vote accordingly.

Being a lap-dog and cheerleader for Bill and Hillary is just an affront to the sensibilities of any reasonable, progressive tax-paying citizen.

Sounds like you should be debating yourself in this thread. Let us know who wins.

Possibly, but I doubt it. Obama's chances of getting elected are slim. When push comes to shove, you watch what happens. Mark my words on that one.

With shirts like this in circulation (and this one isn't even that offensive), this 'race' is hardly political:

http://images.cafepress.com/image/7060727_400x400.jpg

His own people are going to bury him.

Maybe you could tell me what 'homeboy' means.

Call him out on what? That is a shirt worn by Obama SUPPORTERS genius. Maybe YOU should call THEM out on it!
Fuckin' duuuuh. :rolleyes:

Maybe you could tell me what 'homeboy' means.

It is a term of affection used by black people towards one another. Or, in the case of fluffernutter, a derogatory term used by republicans to blast obama. (even thought hat shirt is a pro obama shirt). THey see republican racism everywhere they look, even at themselves.

Maybe you could tell me what 'homeboy' means.
It's a term of endearment for black people.

Homeboy hmmm, me that that was Hollywood talk-thanks.

That is a shirt worn by Obama SUPPORTERS I don't think so. I see hundreds of his supporters every day. I could be wrong, but I think the shirt is insulting to Obama.

For this shirt to be insulting would put Obama in the Michael Jackson/Tiger Woods bracket would it not.

I don't think so. I see hundreds of his supporters every day. I could be wrong, but I think the shirt is insulting to Obama.

Who the hell knows anymore. I am sure it could be both on any given day with his campaign.

I don't think so. I see hundreds of his supporters every day. I could be wrong, but I think the shirt is insulting to Obama.
Hell, I agree with you, Fluffer - I think it's pathetic, to say the least. That said, you should see the shit certain black people wear in support of Obama in Chicago. One I saw not too long ago recapped the lyrics of Ludacris (even though Obama denounced the "message" in his "rap"). I'm telling you (and I'm not fucking blind), to A SHITLOAD of black people, this election is all about RACE. I doubt they even listen to what he has to say (not that it would make a difference, but whatever).

What do you think would happen if some conservative came out and said educated black people wont vote for Obama, like a Obama supporter came out and said educated women wont vote for palin?

They'd flip-the-fuck-out.

She will fade off into oblivion just like Geraldine Ferraro.

Or Hillary Clinton.

Must be true, who is/was Geraldine Ferraro.

She will fade off into oblivion just like Geraldine Ferraro.

Of course you will be wrong, again.

Trav, even though I mostly agree with you about your thoughts regarding FT, it was bad form.

Meanwhile, we have FT trying to tell me what the cornerstones of rightwing philosophy are... I don't think anything really needs to be said there. LOL

Must be true, who is/was Geraldine Ferraro.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geraldine_Ferraro

Sorry still does nothing for me.
Walter Mondale-oh shit :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
You have a choice here. You can be tools for these two parties (and attack each other blindly), or you can think for yourselves and evaluate the evidence and information thoughtfully and in an intelligent manner. And post/vote accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky's Evil Twin
Being a lap-dog and cheerleader for Bill and Hillary is just an affront to the sensibilities of any reasonable, progressive tax-paying citizen.
Sounds like you should be debating yourself in this thread. Let us know who wins.

Fluffermutter,
The first quote is an expression of honest emotion, with a complete contempt for the two-party system at its core, admonishing others to think for themselves and not to fall lock-step into either party's agenda and rhetoric.

The second quote is an equally honest emotion of mine, with a complete contempt for Bill and Hillary Clinton at its core, and with no disprespect meant toward the Democrat party, admonishing others to recongnize what a pair of morally-bankrupt and unsavory slugs the Clintons are. Bill and Hillary Clinton don't love the Democrats any more than they love this nation; they love themselves and their former positions of power and influence. Thank GOD that influence is gone, their political careers are over, and they can go on to being retired citizens, writing books, and charging an arm and a leg for speaking engagements.

And just to clarify; That emotion knows no party affiliation, sir or ma'am, it is just an honest assessment of where the Clintons belong in the current political equasion; the toilet.

No doubt comrade Sparks, after long deliberation youll still vote McCain-yes.

What do you think would happen if some conservative came out and said educated black people wont vote for Obama, like a Obama supporter came out and said educated women wont vote for palin?

Weld...s'not dat P.Diddy Combs is smart.Or even half way.
But he did make a comment *{ half-rap Video } about McCain's
choice of V.P. and Alaska bein like good fer blacks and all.
Good fer Blacks to steer clear of.
That Video is wort about 5 truckload of nice ripe banana.
Is all.



* P.Diddy's Alaska Outrage

No doubt comrade Sparks, after long deliberation youll still vote McCain-yes.


At this point in history, right now?
Yes I will.

Until somebody shows me something of substance from Obama and Biden's camp.

I need not remind you that I have voted Democrat over the years, Republican, and on one occasion, Independent. Each election I take stock of the current crop of what's being offered, and usually I vote for the lesser of two evils.

It's looking that way again this year.
And I hate that it's this way.
We need serious political reform in this country.

Well you won't get it by voting for one of the big two Sparky...

vote independent :thumbs:

And just to clarify; That emotion knows no party affiliation, sir or ma'am, it is just an honest assessment of where the Clintons belong in the current political equasion; the toilet.

I call Bullshit.

That statement has obvious party affiliation.

So it's impossible to dislike the Clintons without being a republican or a conservative? Do ALL democrats love the Clintons?

What do you think would happen if some conservative came out and said educated black people wont vote for Obama, like a Obama supporter came out and said educated women wont vote for palin?

Probably nothing since its much more acceptable to play the gender-card than the race-card. In Palins 1st speech last Friday she made mention of her gender and nothing was said. When Obama even hinted at race, he was criticized.

I think he did much more than "hinted" his race.. he used it as a political weapon, at least his posse did, and labeled people as racists for disagreeing on his ideas.

Sensative disclaimer: Barack Obama did not call everyone who disagrees with him racists. The charge was singular and not universal. :thumbs:

Why is it that when someone is half-white and half-black their "race" is black?

What is wrong with being white?

That emotion knows no party affiliation, sir or ma'am, it is just an honest assessment of where the Clintons belong in the current political equasion; the toilet.

I call Bullshit.

That statement has obvious party affiliation.

Oh, come ON, dharmabum. Let's be honest about his assessment.

Can't you see how far down the tubes the country slipped during the Clinton years? No wonder so many on the Right revile them. How can you possibly blame them? After all, the record is right there for you to examine...............

# Longest economic expansion in American history
The President’s strategy of fiscal discipline, open foreign markets and investments in the American people helped create the conditions for a record 115 months of economic expansion. Our economy has grown at an average of 4 percent per year since 1993.

# Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Thanks in large part to the 1993 Deficit Reduction Act, the 1997 Balanced Budget Act, and President Clinton’s call to save the surplus for debt reduction, Social Security, and Medicare solvency, America has put its fiscal house in order. The deficit was $290 billion in 1993 and expected to grow to $455 billion by this year. Instead, we have a projected surplus of $237 billion.

# Lowest government spending in three decades
Under President Clinton federal government spending as a share of the economy has decreased from 22.2 percent in 1992 to a projected 18.5 percent in 2000, the lowest since 1966.

# More than 22 million new jobs
More than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration, and more than were created in the previous twelve years.

# Highest homeownership in American history
A strong economy and fiscal discipline kept interest rates low, making it possible for more families to buy homes. The homeownership rate increased from 64.2 percent in 1992 to 67. 7 percent, the highest rate ever.

# Lowest unemployment in 30 years
Unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000. Unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women is the lowest in more than 40 years.

# Raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment
Since 1992, reading and math scores have increased for 4th, 8th, and 12th graders, math SAT scores are at a 30-year high, the number of charter schools has grown from 1 to more than 2,000, forty-nine states have put in place standards in core subjects and federal investment in education and training has doubled.

# Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
President Clinton and Vice President Gore have nearly doubled financial aid for students by increasing Pell Grants to the largest award ever, expanding Federal Work-Study to allow 1 million students to work their way through college, and by creating new tax credits and scholarships such as Lifetime Learning tax credits and the HOPE scholarship. At the same time, taxpayers have saved $18 billion due to the decline in student loan defaults, increased collections and savings from the direct student loan program.

# Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
President Clinton and Vice President Gore’s new commitment to education technology, including the E-Rate and a 3,000 percent increase in educational technology funding, increased the percentage of schools connected to the Internet from 35 percent in 1994 to 95 percent in 1999.

# Lowest crime rate in 26 years
Because of President Clinton’s comprehensive anti-crime strategy of tough penalties, more police, and smart prevention, as well as common sense gun safety laws, the overall crime rate declined for 8 consecutive years, the longest continuous drop on record, and is at the lowest level since 1973.

# Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
To help parents succeed at work and at home, President Clinton signed the Family and Medical Leave Act in 1993. Over 20 million Americans have taken unpaid leave to care for a newborn child or sick family member.

# Higher incomes at all levels
After falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family’s income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation, since 1993. African American family income increased even more, rising by nearly $7,000 since 1993. After years of stagnant income growth among average and lower income families, all income brackets experienced double-digit growth since 1993. The bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent.

# Lowest poverty rate in 20 years
Since Congress passed President Clinton’s Economic Plan in 1993, the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent last year — the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years. There are now 7 million fewer people in poverty than in 1993. The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent, the poverty rates for single mothers, African Americans and the elderly have dropped to their lowest levels on record, and Hispanic poverty dropped to its lowest level since 1979.

# Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
In his 1995 State of the Union Address, President Clinton challenged Americans to join together in a national campaign against teen pregnancy. The birth rate for teens aged 15-19 declined every year of the Clinton Presidency, from 60.7 per 1,000 teens in 1992 to a record low of 49.6 in 1999.

# Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
The Clinton Administration expanded efforts to provide mothers and newborn children with health care. Today, a record high 82 percent of all mothers receive prenatal care. The infant mortality rate has dropped from 8.5 deaths per 1,000 in 1992 to 7.2 deaths per 1,000 in 1998, the lowest rate ever recorded.

# Protected millions of acres of American land
President Clinton has protected more land in the lower 48 states than any other president. He has protected 5 new national parks, designated 11 new national monuments and expanded two others and proposed protections for 60 million acres of roadless areas in America’s national forests.

# Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
Between 1998-2000, the national debt was reduced by $363 billion — the largest three-year debt pay-down in American history. We are now on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009.

# Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
President Clinton enacted targeted tax cuts such as the Earned Income Tax Credit expansion, $500 child tax credit, and the HOPE Scholarship and Lifetime Learning Tax Credits. Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family have dropped to their lowest level in 35 years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If, after reading all of that dharma, if you cannot easily see how deeply *into the toilet* the horrible Clintonista Administration dragged this country, then obviously you just aren't looking at it Right.

So that had nothing to do with the compromising of the two sides? I'm referring to Newt and the republican controlled Congress in 1994.

And so my brother Freethinker, no friend to the Clintons (by his own admission) has come out on the side of the Clintons and bre'r Shaman,
if only to stir up the shit.
Typical behavior, from a rudderless, complaining rabble-rouser without the guts to meet me face to face.
(And on my dime, go figure.)

My honest confession of contempt toward the Clintons recognizes no party lines or affiliations.
I served as an aviator and commissioned warrant officer during the Clinton years, (can you say the same, dharmabum?) and I watched as he single-handedly tried to dismantle the military, instituted policies of shame and compromise in the military, and smirked in the face of Federal prosecutors for crimes (as our Commander in Chief, no less) that would have sent any of his Officers or NCO's to Leavenworth for many years.

Fuck Bill and Hillary Clinton, and fuck any or all of you who would try to label me as some sort of partisan hack or anti-Democrat party instigator for simply speaking the plain truth.
The modern Democrat party cares not one iota for the Clintons.
If they did, they would have pushed and maneuvered Hillary toward the nomination, and not Mr. Obama.

Knee-jerk, argumentative, over-reactionary jackasses.
Screw you, and the borrowed donkey you rode in on.

My honest confession of contempt toward the Clintons recognizes no party lines or affiliations.
Sure it doesn't Sparky.

I believe you.

Really I do.



I served as an aviator and commissioned warrant officer during the Clinton years,
Good for you.
So what?


(can you say the same, dharmabum?)
Nope. I was busy going to college and starting an Internet Provider.


and I watched as he single-handedly tried to dismantle the military,
a. Our military is a bloated monster that consumes two thirds of all federal spending. It needs to be shrunk to a reasonable size. We have more contractors in Iraq than we do soldiers and the contractors are making $800-$1000 a day. Call it "dismantling the military" if you want, but that is not my idea of responsible spending.
b. The plan Clinton followed for downsizing the military was written by Dick Cheney under George HW Bush.

instituted policies of shame and compromise in the military,
Like what?


and smirked in the face of Federal prosecutors for crimes (as our Commander in Chief, no less) that would have sent any of his Officers or NCO's to Leavenworth for many years.
LOL!
By today's standards Clinton would have refused to allow any investigation in the first place.


Fuck Bill and Hillary Clinton, and fuck any or all of you who would try to label me as some sort of partisan hack or anti-Democrat party instigator for simply speaking the plain truth.
Fuck you too you dishonest, cynical, partisan hack.
That is your OPINION, not "The truth".
Your gigantic ego apparently prevents you from seeing such obvious differences.


The modern Democrat party cares not one iota for the Clintons. As evidenced by all the votes and support Hillary got?
Hack.


If they did, they would have pushed and maneuvered Hillary toward the nomination, and not Mr. Obama. God forbid they allow Democracy in an election! Elections are supposed to be rigged, right?


Knee-jerk, argumentative, over-reactionary jackasses.
Screw you, and the borrowed donkey you rode in on.
Pot...kettle...black...

.

Oh, I can never stay mad at you.
I love you, you big, fuzzy, internet-business-starting bear you.

Meet me in Vegas.
I want to party with you, Cowboy.

PEACE, out.

http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/3/3/7/3/14453733-14453735-large.jpg

fuck any or all of you who would try to label me as some sort of partisan hack

Hey!....I'm with you buddy.

When you're right, you're right.

The Clinton years were a true abomination for Amuuurica. As the record (in blue above) indicates, the country really went into the toilet during that time.

To think that anyone could possibly regard you as somehow being partisan.......?!?!?

Come come. Don't worry your pretty little head over that.

It's all just baseless speculation.

There there.

http://www.powerlinekennels.com/dogs/butcher_block_pup.jpg

What do you think would happen if some conservative came out and said educated black people wont vote for Obama, like a Obama supporter came out and said educated women wont vote for palin?
What do you think would happen if Democrats brought up Obama's race as often as Republicans bring up Palin's gender? They'd be accused of playing the infamous "race card." Attitudes towards race and attitudes towards gender in America are by no means parallel.

Good point, Jester.

Hey!....I'm with you buddy.

When you're right, you're right.

The Clinton years were a true abomination for Amuuurica. As the record (in blue above) indicates, the country really went into the toilet during that time.

To think that anyone could possibly regard you as somehow being partisan.......?!?!?
Come come. Don't worry your pretty little head over that.
It's all just baseless speculation.

There there.

http://www.powerlinekennels.com/dogs/butcher_block_pup.jpg

Thanks for finally getting it, Freethinker. And thanks for your kind words.
I truly appreciate it, and have really come to value your support and friendship.

Much love right back at you, buddy.
:hug:
J. Sparkman

PS That photo of your grandson is just precious. He's a real chip off the old block, that one.
For a child of such obviously mixed parentage, he's an unusually attractive little fellow.
I know how proud you must be.
:)

I don't think so. I see hundreds of his supporters every day. I could be wrong, but I think the shirt is insulting to Obama.

Have you been in and around Atlanta lately? That shirt and many like it are the latest de rigeur fashion wear.

Why is it that when someone is half-white and half-black their "race" is black?

What is wrong with being white?
Ask Obama. I think he's written a book on the subject.

Its all black and white to me.

Ask Obama. I think he's written a book on the subject.
I am asking you.
Obama isn't the one saying it.