Polish Intelligence sources have for the first time confirmed that the US Central Intelligence Agency ran a secret prison facility on Polish soil.

The admission comes after a report found the CIA had operated prisons for terror suspects in Poland and Romania.

Polish and Romanian officals denied the claims, but last month Warsaw launched a new inquiry into the matter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7601899.stm

Secret prisons in former Eastern Bloc countries? Torture? Rendition?

No one cares, Paul.

At least not in America, anyway.

"One of them states that between 2002 and 2005 the CIA held terror suspects inside a military intelligence training base in Stare Kiejkuty in north-eastern Poland"

Jesus Christ. And our executive has trouble saying their president's name.

Secret prisons in former Eastern Bloc countries? Torture? Rendition?

No one cares, Paul.

At least not in America, anyway.

Whats happened to you people ?

The TV was invented (and later the TV dinner). That's what.

Whats happened to you people ?

8 years of fear.

The TV was invented (and later the TV dinner). That's what.


yup. pretty much.

The TV was invented (and later the TV dinner). That's what.

Maybe thats why Al Qaeda thought they should bring their war to your shores.

Originally Posted by sedan
Secret prisons in former Eastern Bloc countries? Torture? Rendition?

No one cares, Paul.

At least not in America, anyway.

Whats happened to you people ?

Decades of being driven politically further and further to the Right.

An entire nation indoctrinated -from the cradle- with the insanity that it is perfectly sensible and necessary to send three quarters of a trillion taxdollars every year to the military to secure our so-called 'defense'.

An entire nation indoctrinated with the belief that to allow homosexuals to obtain marriage licenses would signal the demise of the practice of heterosexual marriage and bring down God's wrath.

An entire nation indoctrinated with the belief that to disallow state-sanctioned prayers in the schools will lead to moral and societal decay.

An entire nation indoctrinated with the belief that global warming is an invention, and a hoax, and for our leadership to make moves to counter the threat from it is to bow to the evil agenda of the devious leftwing political faction that wants to destroy the country.

That's what has happened.

Dont worry, Obama will get rid of those prisons and let all the terrorists go again

How do you know that all those interned are 'terrorists' ?

How do you know they are not? What do we gain from capturing and torturing innocent people? Do you think we just enjoy that sort of stuff?

How do you know they are not?
Your correct, I dont know. Which is why we have things called courts, and due process.

What do we gain from capturing and torturing innocent people? Do you think we just enjoy that sort of stuff?
From recent activities in Iraqi prisons, indeed some jailers have enjoyed 'that sort of stuff'.
What you gain, intelligence gathering, using any methods, legal or other, and implanting an element
of fear into the young, usually Muslim men from certain nations.

So you think we just capture random people and torure them for the fun of it?

So you think we just capture random people and torture them for the fun of it?
No I dont think that, and dont believe I said that either.
What your guys do is kidnap suspects, fly them around the world to dirty little secret locations,
intern them and like I said, use whatever methods necessary, legal or other, to extract information
from them, and,
install an element of fear into the internees but also into the young men from the region they were
captured.
Your people learned very very well from your British allies, very well.

How do you think we decide who is a suspect?

Travh, why do you always have to defend the unacceptable ? Can't you just for once admit this kind of thing should never have been set up by the US administration ? Don't you think the USA are worth more than this ?

Because I am an American. I do not believe we have secret prison just for the sake of having secret prisons. I do not believe we pick up random people and ship them off for torture for our own enjoyment.

How do you think we decide who is a suspect?
Two reasons really.
[1] People caught in compromising situations, such as foreigners in war zones.
[2] 'Selective Capture' where individuals are 'picked up' in the hope they know something.
Tactic 2 is widely used when informers are being brought in for debriefing, tho in countries where
clan feuding is ripe, an informers word can make an opponent disappear.

#2 Is very useful to send a message to young people also, if they get involved in anti American
activity, this is what will happen to them.

Like I said, the Brits taught yous well.

Because I am an American. I do not believe we have secret prison just for the sake of having secret prisons. I do not believe we pick up random people and ship them off for torture for our own enjoyment.

We did have a reward system set up in Afghanistan where people were encouraged to turn people in for a cash reward. Do you not think such a system is ripe for abuse? Do you not think people were turned in as terrorists because someone wanted to settle an old score or because someone owed someone else some money?

We have courts to determine if people are guilty, and when you take them out of the system, you guarantee that you'll imprison innocent people.

We have courts to determine if people are guilty, and when you take them out of the system, you guarantee that you'll imprison innocent people.
Who said anything about denying them their day in court? They'll just have to wait, is all, and if the people in question were found in possession of AK-74U's, cordite, and maps of our troop locations, then only the biggest of Euroweenie assholes would actually give a shit. Money, legal representation (on our dime, replete with appeals, of course), and man power doesn’t grow on trees. As it is right now, the feel-good liberals are all up in arms over the detainment of "innocent" prisoners, who just so happen to represent an extremely minute portion of the total, but who cares, right? I mean, let's just throw the baby out with the bathwater and think about this emotionally, and not logically.

Yeah.....that MUST be the answer. :rolleyes:

Travh, why do you always have to defend the unacceptable ? Can't you just for once admit this kind of thing should never have been set up by the US administration ? Don't you think the USA are worth more than this ?
Why do you care - you don't. No European does, so what does it matter? It's not like we're scoring any friendship points with each other, so what's the point? Seriously. As far as I'm concerned, you can stick to hating us until the cows come home; we're used to it now.

Well well, I see our great hero from Chicago is back at the childish name calling, cant argue the point that the good old CIA boys were given a free hand to illegally kidnap and torture at will, sums you up very well I think.

Try a bit harder next time, and show some maturity eh.

Are you referring to the Euroweenie quip? If so, then how'd you put it again..."sums you up very well I think"?

Oh, well, on that note, I guess I can't argue the point that the CIA had been given a free hand to "illegally kidnap and torture at will" (you know, 'cause that was their only goal, and all), and you can't argue against the point that you're a pussy.

Looks like we've got each other pretty much pegged, eh?

Are you referring to the Euroweenie quip? If so, then how'd you put it again..."sums you up very well I think"?

Oh, well, on that note, I guess I can't argue the point that the CIA had been given a free hand to "illegally kidnap and torture at will" (you know, 'cause that was their only goal, and all), and you can't argue against the point that you're a pussy.

Looks like we've got each other pretty much pegged, eh?

Sticks and stones mac, that how I know you guys who will defend anything, have zero argument,
resort to name calling.

Scurry on back to something you can justify, rather than trying to uphold a dark stain on Americas image.

Is calling someone "mac" a common thing in Ireland?

We did have a reward system set up in Afghanistan where people were encouraged to turn people in for a cash reward.

We have that same system here Pagan. Do you see a lot of people turning in their enemys who have no connection to the crime?

We have that same system here Pagan. Do you see a lot of people turning in their enemys who have no connection to the crime?
I don't know if they're doing this in the Middle East (and they should be), but here, the criminal has to be convicted of his crime in order for the reward to be paid out.

Is calling someone "mac" a common thing in Ireland? soso

Dont worry, Obama will get rid of those prisons and let all the terrorists go again
FTR - that was almost a perfect response, Trav.

Lets hope Obama does what any right thinking American would do, thats close illegal internment camps, free anyone who isnt being brought to court, and puts the CIA back on its chain and accountable.

Then, once again, America can brag about freedom, justice, and all the other grand words.

Lets hope Obama does what any right thinking American would do, thats close illegal internment camps,
I fully agree - do you think we like having to house and feed 10,000 assholes on a daily basis?
free anyone who isnt being brought to court,
Once again, you'll get no argument from me, which is why I'd be in favor of "mass trials" and speedy hangings.
and puts the CIA back on its chain and accountable.
Sure, if being told that makes you feel better, then why not?
Then, once again, America can brag about freedom, justice, and all the other grand words.
Oh, I don't know, Paul. Listening to many of the Europeans on this very site makes me question whether or not we nuked the right country 60 years ago. Perhaps if we'd done things a little differently, you could rag on your own government's sense of "freedom, justice, and all the other grand words" instead of just taking shots at ours.

No name calling there, just facts.

I fully agree - do you think we like having to house and feed 10,000 assholes on a daily basis? When found guilty of something, the prison system in their own country will feed them.

Once again, you'll get no argument from me, which is why I'd be in favor of "mass trials" and speedy hangings. On what Authority ?

Sure, if being told that makes you feel better, then why not? I think that happened the last time. I guess we now know why Bush is so keen on Georgia and Ukraine joining the western gun club.

Oh, I don't know, Paul. Listening to many of the Europeans on this very site makes me question whether or not we nuked the right country 60 years ago. Perhaps if we'd done things a little differently, you could rag on your own government's sense of "freedom, justice, and all the other grand words" instead of just taking shots at ours. As there are to my knowledge only two Europeans on this very site, no doubt France and Ireland are on your mind.
I dont know about France but Irelands Government sucks, so what. You know, the more you guys play the school yard bully, the more people turn against you, I learnt that one in the school yard.

When found guilty of something, the prison system in their own country will feed them.
Almost as well as ours did, I'm sure.
On what Authority ?
Do you want us to give 'em trials or not?
I guess we now know why Bush is so keen on Georgia and Ukraine joining the western gun club.
I'm pretty sure most Georgians and Ukrainians are gonna naturally fancy belonging to a western gun clubs when the alternative represents their compulsory membership to an eastern gulag.

But fuck them and what they want! I mean, after all, they haven't the slightest idea what the Russians are all about anyway, right?
As there are to my knowledge only two Europeans on this very site, no doubt France and Ireland are on your mind.
For your information, there have been several over the years, and you all sound like the same broken record.

Almost as well as ours did, I'm sure.
How would they know, Bush was cunning enough to make sure they never see the US.

Do you want us to give 'em trials or not?
Not an American one, no.

I'm pretty sure most Georgians and Ukrainians are gonna naturally fancy belonging to a western gun clubs when the alternative represents their compulsory membership to an eastern gulag. There is another alternative, get on with life and let America and Russia play the cold war somewhere else.

But fuck them and what they want! I mean, after all, they haven't the slightest idea what the Russians are all about anyway, right? I just checked on the wires, Russia hasnt invaded anyone today. :rolleyes:

For your information, there have been several over the years, and you all sound like the same broken record.For your information, how many have stuck around when they are verbally attacked for their ideals ?

How would they know, Bush was cunning enough to make sure they never see the US.
Weak deflection, at best.

You know what - have it your way, Paul - we starve, beat, and let the Greeks rape 'em on a daily basis. You know....because it's fun, and all.... :rolleyes:
For your information, how many have stuck around when they are verbally attacked for their ideals ?
If you can't stand the heat, then stay outta the kitchen. There are many anti-American sites out there - you (or anyone else, for that matter) are free to join as many as you want.

Weak deflection, at best. A weak reflection on your behalf mac.

You know what - have it your way, Paul - we starve, beat, and let the Greeks rape 'em on a daily basis. You know....because it's fun, and all.... Im sure that some do get a kick out of torture and internment, yes.

If you can't stand the heat, then stay outta the kitchen. There are many anti-American sites out there - you (or anyone else, for that matter) are free to join as many as you want.
Leave and what, allow clowns like yourself space to defend whats wrong with American Foreign Policy, somehow I dont think so.
Plenty of right wing sites out there, feel free.

Who said anything about denying them their day in court? They'll just have to wait, is all, and if the people in question were found in possession of AK-74U's, cordite, and maps of our troop locations, then only the biggest of Euroweenie assholes would actually give a shit. Money, legal representation (on our dime, replete with appeals, of course), and man power doesn’t grow on trees. As it is right now, the feel-good liberals are all up in arms over the detainment of "innocent" prisoners, who just so happen to represent an extremely minute portion of the total, but who cares, right? I mean, let's just throw the baby out with the bathwater and think about this emotionally, and not logically.

From a September 16 Reuters article (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1616325420080916):

Of about 255 detainees now in Guantanamo, government agencies say 60 to 80 face special military tribunals. About 60 are in the process of being sent back to their own countries. The future of the remaining 115 or so is uncertain as there is not enough evidence to charge them and they are deemed too dangerous to send home.

"No one wants to release the next Mohamed Atta," said one U.S. defense official, referring to one of the hijackers of a plane flown into the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

Senior officials from the Pentagon, the State Department, the White House and Justice Department all said despite a wish to close it, Guantanamo would likely be an issue for the next president following the November U.S. presidential election.

Both candidates -- Republican Sen. John McCain and Democratic Sen. Barack Obama -- want it closed.

The creation of the remote prison tarnished America's image and human rights groups say it has damaged U.S. credibility. More than 500 prisoners have been released but most of the remainder have been confined for years without charges.

Over two thirds of those held at Guantanamo have been released without ever being charged with a crime.

And you say these represent "an extremely minute portion of the total"?

I don't know why it's so hard for you to admit we've falsely imprisoned innocent people -- the numbers make it fairly obvious that we have done exactly that.

A weak reflection on your behalf mac.
The 'point' you attempted to make was needlessly combative and stupid, so upon "reflection", my original assessment stands. Perhaps if I had expressed myself in a monosyllabic fashion, you'd understand.
Im sure that some do get a kick out of torture and internment, yes.
Sure, and "some" Irishmen like fucking 6-year-old girls, but I'd never dream of tarring your entire country with that brush, you inconsiderate, illogical fuck.
Leave and what, allow clowns like yourself space to defend whats wrong with American Foreign Policy, somehow I dont think so.
So now I'm a clown, eh? Whatever, Paul. Coming from the likes of you, I'll wear your so-called barb here as a badge of honor.

I don't know why it's so hard for you to admit we've falsely imprisoned innocent people -- the numbers make it fairly obvious that we have done exactly that.
I never said they were all guilty.

The 'point' you attempted to make was needlessly combative and stupid, so upon "reflection", my original assessment stands. Perhaps if I had expressed myself in a monosyllabic fashion, you'd understand.
I didnt 'attempt' to make any point, your current Administration is a disgrace, plain and simple.

Sure, and "some" Irishman like fucking 6-year-old girls, but I'd never dream of tarring your entire country with that brush, you inconsiderate, illogical fuck.
Sure they do, but thats nothing to do with Bush kidnapping, torturing and interning civilians anywhere and everywhere, apart from the United States.
Back to the petty name calling, I knew you couldnt stay away.

So now I'm a clown, eh? Whatever, Paul. Coming from the likes of you, I'll wear your so-called barb as a badge of honor.You and anyone else trying to argue that there is justification in secret prisons-internment camps-torture-kidnapping, are clowns of your own making.

Truely out of your depth.

Back to the petty name calling, I knew you couldnt stay away.
And you called me a clown prior to this post, Paul. You're not exonerated in that dept. either.

And you called me a clown prior to this post, Paul. You're not exonerated in that dept. either.

Thats true, I'll give you that.
If you desire to take it personally, thats your choice, this Administration are carrying out these atrocities in the name of your country, the United States.

I take this very personally as having experienced some at first fucking hand.